Thanks, Jim, and I agree.
I just reviewed this thread where Carroll and Jeff tried to resolve the same issue.
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14185I think that Jeff explained it very well, but I still think that Carroll either does not understand or will not accept what he is saying.
Jeff is not saying that everybody will get results even with 100% adherence to the regular plan. In fact, the regular plan would not likely be recommended for somebody who is not already where they need and want to be. And it certainly would not be recommended if results were not being obtained.
In the anonymous case you deleted above, the person claimed to get heart disease while eating some kind of a mostly vegan diet. We really don't know anything about what kind of diet he was following or what his adherence was, since it was an anonymous post based up a couple levels of hearsay. I am confident he was not eating the diet that would be recommended for somebody with risk factors for heart disease. The diet recommended for heart disease reverses rather than encourages heart disease. That is well proven to me.
What I hear Jeff saying is that the plan, properly applied, always gets good results. And one of the reasons for failure is that people don't understand the plan. Some people think that they are on plan even if they have serious health or weight problems by simply eating freely from the approved list of foods. That is a misunderstanding of the plan, and they will likely fail like I did once. Jeff has said many times that the single biggest problem is people taking dietary advice here recommended for somebody else, and assuming that it applies to them.
What I consider to be the definition of the McDougall Plan is a diet that is based upon Dr. McDougall's general principles, as outlined in his books, and specifically adapted to the needs of the individual. For anybody with a serious health problem, that will likely be some form of the MWL plan.