The word "vegan"

[Norm]

I do see your point to an extent. But if I said, "From what I know of Hispanics, many of them lie a lot and they don't care if they throw trash out their car window." Would that be OK to say? I hope not but I don't really understand the difference between saying preachy vegan or lying Hispanic.

Here's the difference. Many vegans ARE preachy. There is a level of truth in the comment made about some vegans being preachy and pushing fat laden junk food. It may not be nice to point out, but there is an element of truth in that observation.

Your comments about hispanics above and other races earlier are not even in the same ballpark, because they're implying that one race is more inclined to lie, throw trash out their car windows, or eat watermelons. They're offensive stereotypes.

No matter how hard you try, the vegan cupcake comment is simply not in the same category. Sorry.

They're not in the same ballpark and I'm wondering how many other offensive stereotypes you're going to try to compare this too.

-Norm

[Debbie]

OK, might be a good point. What minority is a fair comparison? How about Christian which is a choice?

Perfect. They can be preachy I agree with you there. Are they greasy? I do not know so I wont comment. But I do know 1 greasy vegan.

Fine, "From what I know, a large number of hateful, ignorant Christians could care less about poor people." Is that OK to say?

Yep. Cause it is true. You are not saying, "YOU are Christian and that makes you hateful, ignorant and you could care less about poor people" directing it at any one person.....here. same thing with what Theodore said. He did NOT say YOU or ME. Some are just that way. And that is okay. Does not make me insensitive. I just shrug.

[f1jim]

It's all about context. There are situations that probably would be fine to make that statement. if I were in a church I was a member of and I made that statement it might be fine. Talking about the behavior of vegans on these boards lets a lot more into the conversation.
f1jim

[Lesliec1]

Yep. Cause it is true. You are not saying, "YOU are Christian and that makes you hateful, ignorant and you could care less about poor people" directing it at any one person.....here. same thing with what Theodore said. He did NOT say YOU or ME. Some are just that way. And that is okay. Does not make me insensitive. I just shrug.

You seem to be saying that as long as it's not about "me", it's not offensive. I don't understand that thinking at all.

[EvanG]

Some people here simply do not want to be associated with the rather large number of preachy, grease-fuelled cupcake pushers who currently populate the vegan movement.

This is offensive. It was funny to me, but still offensive.

Some people here simply do not want to be associated with the rather large number of preachy, hate-fuelled lie pushers who currently populate the Christian religion.

This is offensive, and in my opinion analogous to the other statement. These are offensive not because they do or do no offend you. They are offensive, because they are likely to offend a high number of people.

Imagine being some particular denomination of a Christian. You do not want to refer to yourself as a Christian, because you want to emphasize some other aspect of your denomination. That's your prerogative. Your minister even encourages this distinction, although you all believe that Christ is your savior. Now, imagine writing the second line on your church's bulletin board. It probably would offend a lot of people. The truthiness or lack thereof doesn't really matter. So, offend away if that's the kind of person you want to be, but don't lie to yourself about it.

I'm surprised by the apparent need to complain about vegans on this board. Especially due to the fact that most people here are 99% dietary vegan.

[Lesliec1]

It's all about context. There are situations that probably would be fine to make that statement. if I were in a church I was a member of and I made that statement it might be fine. Talking about the behavior of vegans on these boards lets a lot more into the conversation.
f1jim

I don't really understand that. If I whispered an offensive comment in secret to my very best friend, it's still offensive even if nobody will ever hear it or be hurt by it.

I think the part I'm having trouble with is that it seems that because it's "only about vegans," pretty much whatever adjective you want to include is OK? Is that right? Apparently superior, preachy and militant are OK. Is there anything that would NOT be OK? Dirty, stupid, arrogant? I'm not trying to nit pick. I really don't understand what the criteria for offensive is. Not as a moderator. Just as a human being.

[Debbie]

Some people here simply do not want to be associated with the rather large number of preachy, hate-fuelled lie pushers who currently populate the Christian religion.

I can think of 1 group of Christians that fit this "hate-fuelled" description. Because of their recent actions, I often shy away from saying I Christian, not that I ran around yelling it to anyone who will listen. This group is, IMO, nasty to the core. That is my opinion. I am not being offensive. I am being honest and I would have no problem saying that to them either. Just as I would have no problem saying the cupcake pushing thing to a vegan who was being preachy and pushy.

And I dont see people just walking around complaining about vegans. These threads come up from time to time. This one has been nice and tame and calm. Some say some are insensitive, which can be taken as complaining and offensive, others just voiced why they dont want to be called vegan. Then they got questioned as to how dare you.

[Lesliec1]

Here's the difference. Many vegans ARE preachy. There is a level of truth in the comment made about some vegans being preachy and pushing fat laden junk food. It may not be nice to point out, but there is an element of truth in that observation.

Completely disagree. Anyone can argue that EVERY SINGLE stereotypical character trait has an element of truth.

My examples are offensive? LOL

[Debbie]

I think the part I'm having trouble with is that it seems that because it's "only about vegans," pretty much whatever adjective you want to include is OK? Is that right? Apparently superior, preachy and militant are OK. Is there anything that would NOT be OK? Dirty, stupid, arrogant? I'm not trying to nit pick. I really don't understand what the criteria for offensive is.

I think the part Im having trouble with is, no one called all vegans superior, preachy and militant. Please go visit any number of vegan boards, facebook pages and see. Some are very preachy, militant and act highly superior. Ive left pages cause some got so dang nasty about other non vegans who were trying to change, saying they werent going far enough. Meatless Mondays arent enough. And you should hear what they say about people who only consider themselves dietary vegans. I cant use the words here on this board.


Maybe the only solution is to not talk about it. Some vegans are nice some are not so nice. Just like people. Im sure you think I am not, cause Im insensitive.

[EvanG]

And I dont see people just walking around complaining about vegans.

I don't see it all over, but it is prevalent on this board. Sometimes it seems like people here go out of their way to swipe at vegans and preemptively distance themselves from a group that is looked down on.

This is exhibit A.

Some people here simply do not want to be associated with the rather large number of preachy, grease-fuelled cupcake pushers who currently populate the vegan movement.

The implications are (1) that a disproportionate number of vegans fit this description, (2) it is important to point this out, and (3) the negatives of associating with these people are large.

Would you stand in front of your church and say that (1) a disproportionate number of Christians are preachy, hate-fueled lie pushers (2) i'm saying this b/c it is an important point, and (3) I don't want to associate with Christians. Would you then argue that this is not offensive?

[Debbie]

Your exhibit A happened in this thread. I dont see members here just taking cracks at vegans just cause.

As to your number points, yes I could stand I outside my church and say that, except I wouldn't use disproportionate. But I could use many.

I would not say it just to say it. But rather as part of a conversation, yes. As seemed to happen here.

And I don't recall seeing anyone here say they don't want to associate with vegans. They just don't want the label and baggage that sometimes accompanies it.

No it is not offensive unless youre looking to be offended.

[f1jim]

A few days before Christmas and the best we can do is set up straw men and knock them down? Is it Holiday stress or do we all just want to push things over the edge. Let this all go. If you find some vegans annoying so what? If you find people that notice these traits annoying, so what? The bigger questions are not how to change others. That can't happen. The bigger question is what are we individually doing in our lives to be healthier, happier people. We can all start by letting the anxiety go when you hear preachy vegans or people complaining about preachy vegans. If you are doing what you need to do in your life to get healthy and be a great example to the people in your life you will do more than any complaint or indignation will do. Perhaps we could start with a chunk of forgiveness for those that we find vexing and look for the common threads we have that bind us. Let's start tonight.
f1jim

[Waingapu]

[
This is exhibit A.

Some people here simply do not want to be associated with the rather large number of preachy, grease-fuelled cupcake pushers who currently populate the vegan movement.

The implications are (1) that a disproportionate number of vegans fit this description, (?

I just had to finally read the last page of this thread after avoiding all the other 130+ posts for so long.

It made my day, that wonderful quote.

"preachy, grease-fuelled cupcake pushers"

Sorry, but its just too funny.
As to all the other arguments and opinions, I've not the time to read them all.

But you know, looking at it from a totally different perspective, the first three letters of vegan spelled backward is "nag"....

(just fun, not serious)

[EvanG]

Your exhibit A happened in this thread. I dont see members here just taking cracks at vegans just cause.

I think this is a recurring and slightly annoying aspect of this discussion board. Furthermore, about five people felt the need to pile on. Despite wanting to avoid this thread initially, I felt it important to support Leslie, who in my opinion, is correct.

And I don't recall seeing anyone here say they don't want to associate with vegans. They just don't want the label and baggage that sometimes accompanies it.

So, it's OK to associate with vegans as long as no one else associates you with them? That doesn't seem very courageous to me.

[TerriT]

OK, might be a good point. What minority is a fair comparison? How about Christian which is a choice?

Perfect. They can be preachy I agree with you there. Are they greasy? I do not know so I wont comment. But I do know 1 greasy vegan.

Fine, "From what I know, a large number of hateful, ignorant Christians could care less about poor people." Is that OK to say?

Did anyone on this thread call vegans hateful and ignorant?

If not, then how is this in any way relevant to the discussion?

I think, by trying to prove your point, you're going off on a tangent that isn't very productive. I think it's clear that you found the terms greasy and preachy offensive, while others didn't. Arguing the point further isn't likely to make anyone change their minds.