Still nuts

[Gramma Jackie]

What I can't understand is how Rip Esselstyn can recommend the Bravo! cookbook on his Engine2 website when his father Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn does not recommend nuts. The Bravo! cookbook by Chef Ramses Bravo executive chef of The True North center has a lot of nuts, seeds and even coconut in the recipes. In lieu of grains, the Bravo! cookbook has recipes for sunflower dough and nut dough which are very high in calories and fat.

[bethannerickson]

What I can't understand is how Rip Esselstyn can recommend the Bravo! cookbook on his Engine2 website when his father Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn does not recommend nuts.

I remember reading an interview by the Esselstyns addressing this. They said (I'm paraphrasing) that Rip's program is "plant strong" and their program (to reverse heart disease) is "plant perfect."

Rip uses nuts in his lasagne and other recipes. Dr. Esselstyn's focus is on heart disease, hence little to no nuts. (He does have a walnut something-or-another recipe in his book, but due to my husband's heart attack, I haven't tried it.)

Hope that clarifies.

Beth

[patty]

If I remember correctly in "Bravo!" Chef Ramses says the nuts are included in the recipes to help transition off SAD. What is too bad, is the recipes that include fats from: nuts/avocados/soy are very addictive. A new habit is just as hard to give up as a old one.

Chef AJ and Jeff Nelson the writer for vegsource... Can't Lose The Weight? It Could Be The Nuts... sure got my attention as Mark's posts. After working in healthcare and witnessing what happens when someone has a stroke, I feel you can't be too careful. I love in Dr. Esselstyn's _Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease_ dvd he shares the same thing that happens to our heart happens to our brain, and other organs.

Aloha, patty

[Gramma Jackie]

If I remember correctly in "Bravo!" Chef Ramses says the nuts are included in the recipes to help transition off SAD. What is too bad, is the recipes that include fats from: nuts/avocados/soy are very addictive. A new habit is just as hard to give up as a old one.

Chef AJ and Jeff Nelson the writer for vegsource... Can't Lose The Weight? It Could Be The Nuts... sure got my attention as Mark's posts. After working in healthcare and witnessing what happens when someone has a stroke, I feel you can't be too careful. I love in Dr. Esselstyn's _Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease_ dvd he shares the same thing that happens to our heart happens to our brain, and other organs.

Aloha, patty

Actually I bought the book on the recommendation of Chef AJ. That's why I am confused. If True North recommended Chef AJ cut out the nuts, why did she recommend the Bravo! cookbook? I like Chef AJ and I am not criticizing her at all. I am just confused about the issue of nuts.

As far as Chef Bravo, I didn't get the idea that the nuts were to transition at all. He has a section in the book called "The Basics" where he has recipes for a dough made out of sunflower seeds and another dough made out of almonds, pecans and coconut. Several of his dishes have one or the other of these doughs as a basis to the dish. They are very high calorie and high fat. It's one thing to sprinkle a few chopped nuts on top of something every once in awhile. It's something else entirely to make a dough out of them or have them as a large part of a dish.

I am not trying to trash the Bravo! cookbook. It has a lot of good low cal, low fat recipes in it. But I could never eat anything with 750 calories and 24 grams of fat per serving. That's how I got fat in the first place.

That's why I think I will just stick with Dr. McDougall. I got sidetracked the first time I tried McDougalling because there were so many different diets being pushed on TV and on the internet. Even though the Engine 2, Eat to Live, etc. are plant-based programs too, it is just too confusing to try to assimilate all of them. I had no problem giving up meat, dairy and eggs. Don't miss them at all. But all these other things like should we or shouldn't we eat nuts or should we eat more fruit, or should we or shouldn't we eat potatoes keep pulling me one way or another. So I will just stick 100% McDougall.

[patty]

If I remember correctly in "Bravo!" Chef Ramses says the nuts are included in the recipes to help transition off SAD. What is too bad, is the recipes that include fats from: nuts/avocados/soy are very addictive. A new habit is just as hard to give up as a old one.

Chef AJ and Jeff Nelson the writer for vegsource... Can't Lose The Weight? It Could Be The Nuts... sure got my attention as Mark's posts. After working in healthcare and witnessing what happens when someone has a stroke, I feel you can't be too careful. I love in Dr. Esselstyn's _Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease_ dvd he shares the same thing that happens to our heart happens to our brain, and other organs.

Aloha, patty

Actually I bought the book on the recommendation of Chef AJ. That's why I am confused. If True North recommended Chef AJ cut out the nuts, why did she recommend the Bravo! cookbook? I like Chef AJ and I am not criticizing her at all. I am just confused about the issue of nuts.

As far as Chef Bravo, I didn't get the idea that the nuts were to transition at all. He has a section in the book called "The Basics" where he has recipes for a dough made out of sunflower seeds and another dough made out of almonds, pecans and coconut. Several of his dishes have one or the other of these doughs as a basis to the dish. They are very high calorie and high fat. It's one thing to sprinkle a few chopped nuts on top of something every once in awhile. It's something else entirely to make a dough out of them or have them as a large part of a dish.

I am not trying to trash the Bravo! cookbook. It has a lot of good low cal, low fat recipes in it. But I could never eat anything with 750 calories and 24 grams of fat per serving. That's how I got fat in the first place.

That's why I think I will just stick with Dr. McDougall. I got sidetracked the first time I tried McDougalling because there were so many different diets being pushed on TV and on the internet. Even though the Engine 2, Eat to Live, etc. are plant-based programs too, it is just too confusing to try to assimilate all of them. I had no problem giving up meat, dairy and eggs. Don't miss them at all. But all these other things like should we or shouldn't we eat nuts or should we eat more fruit, or should we or shouldn't we eat potatoes keep pulling me one way or another. So I will just stick 100% McDougall.

Dr. Fuhrman, True North are still supporting the unconscious cycles of the biological metabolic fat/oil dollar from olive oil to nuts and seeds. Doug Leslie told Chef AJ to do the math. The calories from a cup of carrots to a bowl of carrots change, the calorie density stays the same. A tablespoon of olive oil/a few nuts and seeds are the same weight as a lb. Calorie density is a constant. It is easy to overeat a few almonds vs. a lb. of broccoli. In Jeff Novick's Calorie Density chart there is a forty fold difference between the lowest to highest.

All relationships are a business, and there is a feedback loop:) Don't buy the masquerade. The three things that effect a cell: toxins, trauma, and thoughts. Projecting the biological metabolic fat/oil dollar thoughts is just as harmful as practicing it unconsciously. They say if we treated anyone the way we treat ourself we would blow them away with a cannon. Our conscious lives on in and out of a body:)

In living and understanding calorie density, weighing and measuring a whole new math. The unconscious is made conscious, the whole graphic fractal if present. It is difficult to grasp it because we are so conditioned to the famine that never comes. And it is only when getting close to goal weight does the message really come in.. unless you have a MI like Dr. McDougall had early in life. Chef Ramses says while at True North the percipient will lose 2 lbs. a week. They support fasting and when first detoxing off SAD, how hard is it to lose 2 lbs. a week? This is a life journey and it is why Jeff Novick not only has a _Calorie Density_, but two on nuts/oil.

Jeff Novick has taken Dr. McDougall's message to heart. He never suggests using any nuts or seeds in any of his recipes on his dvds. He is as constant as calorie density.. he lives and teaches the fundamental feedback we all want..the unconscious becoming conscious. We are all transparent where the teacher becomes the student. How much is enough? The body doesn't lie. Dr. Fuhrman, True North are just steps leading to where Dr. Mc Dougall arrived eons ago. I am still making amends to my adult children for the way I fed them unconsciously. Tomorrow for all of us is just a idea. We are meant to be multifaceted (constant) in all areas of our life.

Aloha, patty

[Gramma Jackie]

Thanks Patty, not sure I understand everything you said, esp. about the fractals, but it was interesting nonetheless. I think maybe the reason McDougall, Novick and Caldwell Esselstyn are on the same page about nuts is because they are more into treating people with heart disease. Jeff was the dietician for the Pritikin Center in Florida and low fat is their mantra. So although any plant-based diet is so much better than an animal-based one, some just go a step further. I once read that almost everyone over the age of 40 has coronary artery disease whether they know it or not unless they have been eating a vegan diet for a long time. So with that thought in mind, just to be on the safe side, I will stay away from nuts even though I have not been diagnosed with any cardiovascular problems.

[patty]

Thanks Patty, not sure I understand everything you said, esp. about the fractals, but it was interesting nonetheless. I think maybe the reason McDougall, Novick and Caldwell Esselstyn are on the same page about nuts is because they are more into treating people with heart disease. Jeff was the dietician for the Pritikin Center in Florida and low fat is their mantra. So although any plant-based diet is so much better than an animal-based one, some just go a step further. I once read that almost everyone over the age of 40 has coronary artery disease whether they know it or not unless they have been eating a vegan diet for a long time. So with that thought in mind, just to be on the safe side, I will stay away from nuts even though I have not been diagnosed with any cardiovascular problems.

When thinking of a fractal, think of a piece of broccoli.. it is the same as the whole.. in actuality it is the relationship with everything/as above as below:) They use the expression the cauliflower universe:) Calorie density gives the graphic picture of the fractal calorie as the whole.. that is why it is constant where the calories change.

In Dr. McDougall's MS online video, he shares the fat/oil sticks to the cell where the cells stick together creating a sludge breaking the brain barrier. Dr. Esselstyn from "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" shares the importance of the membrane of the cell:

Every segment of our bodies is comprised of cells, and every individual cell is protected by an outer coat. This cell membrane is almost unimaginably delicate—just one hundred-thousandth of a millimeter thick. Yet it is absolutely essential to the integrity and healthy functioning of the cell. And it is extremely vulnerable to injury.

Every mouthful of oils and animal products, including dairy foods, initiates an assault on these membranes and, therefore, on the cells they protect. These foods produce a cascade of free radicals in our bodies—especially harmful chemical substances that induce metabolic injuries from which there is only partial recovery. Year after year, the effects accumulate. And eventually, the cumulative cell injury is great enough to become obvious, to express itself as what physicians define as disease. Plants and grains do not induce the deadly cascade of free radicals. Even better, in fact, they carry an antidote. Unlike oils and animal products, they contain antioxidants, which help to neutralize the free radicals and also, recent research suggests, may provide considerable protection against cancers.

Fat/oil from the lips to the hips, can't be denied, the transparency of course practicing CR with or without extreme exercising gives another picture.

Aloha, patty

[veggylvr]

I agree more with Fuhrman who says green and yellow vegetables are packed full of nutrition rather than McDougall who says in the Starch Solution that green and yellow vegetables are added more for aroma, texture, flavor and color

I thought this was addressed in another thread that this quote was in context of satiety, not that Dr. McD doesn't promote the nutritional value of green and yellow vegetables. What he is saying is that starch is what fills you up, and that eating mainly greens, vegetables, and fruit (without starch) isn't going to be a satisfying, effective way to lose weight and maintain energy.

As I understand it, that is the main difference between McDougall and Furhman - starch. Furhman seems (or pretends to be for marketing purporses) against the potato, whereas McDougall correctly asserts that potatoes, as well as starch like rice, have been the healthy staples of many populations throughout history and provided the main ENERGY to their diets, while also being low in calorie density.

The gladiators ate beans and barley, for instance. They never would've had the strength to fight eating only green and yellow vegetables.

[elbow]

Hi all, I've enjoyed reading your posts. For me, since I have fairly low caloric needs (like most older women), there's a big difference between requiring an ounce of nuts a day and not requiring it. I have nothing against it on days that I feel like eating some, but I would much rather it not be a requirement every single day. I'd rather eat a large potato (same calories) than a small handful of nuts most days. The potato is more filling, and a quick check in cronometer shows it to be much more nutrient dense. And if you combine an ounce of nuts with a small amount of avocado and/or maybe just a little tofu, suddenly you have a high-fat diet if you don't consume that many calories. I find it much easier to control my weight on a low-fat diet. So I am enjoying not eating the nuts every day.

I like Jeff Novick’s approach of eating a variety of healthy foods with no minimum requirements of anything. I like to eat what’s fresh, what’s in season, what looks great today.

I too was disappointed in the Bravo cookbook. In addition to a lot of high-fat recipes, the quantities for each recipe are huge.

-barb

[patty]

Mahalo -barb!

I did the exact same thing following ETL, and eliminated the starch to allow for the nuts. Dr. Fuhrman gives out so many mixed messages. My cousin was visiting recently and bought some peanut butter, I ended up having peanut butter shakes with frozen bananas and soy milk.. in no time I gained 6 lbs. What is so frustrating it takes a couple of months for the memory to quite down.

Aloha, patty

[elbow]

Hi Patty!

I recognized you from your posts. Nice to "see" you.

-barb

[patty]

-barb:)

I remember now... on your website you had suggested Dr. McDougall's "Digestion Tune-Up" and I truly have to say Mahalo for the suggestion. I have gifted it so many times. After transitioning here from Dr. Fuhrman's site I lost about 20 lbs in the last couple of years... gained back 6 from the nuts. In reflection if a event happens again where I am open.. to a peanut milkshake.. the solution would be to limit the starch... till the addiction runs itself out.

I remember you traveling a lot. Someone was asking about tips for traveling. I am pretty much a island girl, though I remembered in AA there is always a concern when someone with new sobriety makes a geographic. Because so much of your sobriety is based on fellowship of your environment. When I first lost my weight with ETL, I had no problem, it was only on the second time I had to include the online ETL's virtual community. I have to say I am really grateful for all the wonderful members of Dr. Fuhrman's site.

I am so grateful Dr. McDougall has made this site available for no cost. And he as Jeff Novick share the possibility of living on 3.00 dollars or less a day. My AA sponsor had shared many, many years ago, when changing addictions it is like changing seats on the titanic. When I was drinking I had no problem with food. I feel for myself, food and money go hand in hand and I get caught up in justified anger, which is just as harmful as unjustified because of the cortisol:) and I sometimes project that anger at Dr. Fuhrman because he acknowledges the addiction aspect of the disease. In AA/NA I have witnessed a lot of women die, because of the social addiction where men work their program on them. Dr. McDougall was on Coast to Coast, and it was so nice to hear George Noory in mentioning "The Starch Solution", mention Mary.

So happy to see you posting:) as you have been instrumental in my recovery.. and of course all whom I touch. We are Blessed with your presence.

Aloha, patty

[Chumly]

Hi Patty,

What do you mean by this statement?

"In AA/NA I have witnessed a lot of women die, because of the social addiction where men work their program on them."

Michael

[patty]

Hi Patty,

What do you mean by this statement?

"In AA/NA I have witnessed a lot of women die, because of the social addiction where men work their program on them."

Michael

In AA there is what you call thirteen stepping, where men work their program on women. It can be in reverse, though the other is the more of the norm. One of the first things my AA sponsor told me was "Men will chase your a--, but women will save it". When getting sober it is not uncommon for women to be afraid of women because of the way they are treated in the culture. Economy is the Elephant in the room. Women through other women learn to network to be sovereign. It is like all addictions. it is a yes, no and wait process. Some women never make it... they get raped etc.. it is a lot different for a man. Mahalo for asking as we are all interdependent. A non-duel One.

Aloha, patty

[veggylvr]

When getting sober it is not uncommon for women to be afraid of women because of the way they are treated in the culture.

I was curious about what you meant as well, and now I'm more confused. Why are women afraid of other women?