Dr. McDougall on the Livin' La Vida Low Carb Show!!!!

[ulialen]

Good Doc, before you pick out one study on Paleo where an intense exercise plan was followed, who knows what that stress from CrossFit would do, let's not forget other studies done on a Paleo Diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724493/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407

first article:
1) as in almost all the article made by paleo promoters, they dont examine health people but they examine people with diabetes or with insulin resistance or obese.
Why? obeses because they can put them in caloric restriction very easily.
why Diabetic 2 people? because they are in a condition in which the body is insulin resistant. When people have type 2 diabetic (insulin resistance) the most important thing is they they loose weight. They can resolve their type 2 diabetes with every type of diet if they go in caloric restriction and loose weight.
With whole food plant based low fat diet we can go off of medicine in 3 days.
Diabetes 2 is an overnutrition disease. and you can resolve only loosing weight and stopping overnutrition.
The best parameters to evaluate food in types 2 diabetes is not which food make the big glucose jump but which food improve most the insulin sensitive of the person.

2) "Further, the Paleolithic diet was lower in total energy...."
here is the key of the article. The usual trick of the low-carb promoters:
They put the people in big caloric restrinction.
Always when you put a person in caloric restriction especially if he is obese, especially if he is type 2 diabetic, he improve all the parameter (with the exception of LDL that is very strong linked by thye type of food even if in big caloric restriction).
So this article only prove a thing that scientist know by many and many years:
that caloric restriction improve the health parameter, and that loose weight improve parameter of obese and diabetic people.

3) The third typical trick of the lowcarb promoter is to hide the LDL value:
as you can see they give you the result of HbA1c,, triacylglycerol , diastolic blood pressure, weight , BMI and waist circumference, and HDL.
Why? because with such food it is impossible to prevent LDL to go up very much even if in caloric restriction regime.
LDL is linked to saturated fat and animal protein and is the most known and verified risk parameter for hearth disease.
Because of that they always and always hide and dont tell you the LDL value in their tricked articles.

Now i go to see the other 2 articles but i presume that are of the same type.

[ulialen]

Good Doc, before you pick out one study on Paleo where an intense exercise plan was followed, who knows what that stress from CrossFit would do, let's not forget other studies done on a Paleo Diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724493/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407

The second article is silly:
There are no 2 group, one on a control diet and one on the diet to test but only one group that follow a regime diet for 3 day and then follow the test diet for 10 days.
And what they have eaten before that 3 days? they things that in 3 days they have normalized a person. if they have eaten 30% of saturated fat for one mount, they will improve with almost all diets. And also the improve of the parameter is not immediate. So the effect of what you eat in that 3 days become visible after some day non in that 3 days.
Also 3 days is a silly short time. And also 10 days
Also they dont specify caloric intake, they dont specify fiber intake,
they dont use red meat when paleo always recommend red meat, they dont specify the type of carbohydrate used if refined or unrefined or whole grains.

It is only a silly article.

Hey Mark Shields,
is this the best scientific paleo production?
i hope for you no.

[ulialen]

Good Doc, before you pick out one study on Paleo where an intense exercise plan was followed, who knows what that stress from CrossFit would do, let's not forget other studies done on a Paleo Diet

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724493/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407

The third article is the same of the first article.

This is another trick of paleo and lowcarb promoters.
They put inside discussions very much articles with the hope that the people dont read and examine every article. and often very often people dont read or examine or read only the conclusion of a article.
When you examine every article you will find that or the article use the usual tricks as caloric restriction, hidden LDL value, short intervention time, no specification of the quality of the food, use obese or diabetic people, no control diet, hidden the fiber intake value etc or sometime the article attest exactly the contrary of what they are saying to you.

[plants-and-carbs]

Good Doc, before you pick out one study on Paleo where an intense exercise plan was followed, who knows what that stress from CrossFit would do, let's not forget other studies done on a Paleo Diet


The second article is silly:
There are no 2 group, one on a control diet and one on the diet to test but only one group that follow a regime diet for 3 day and then follow the test diet for 10 days.
And what they have eaten before that 3 days? they things that in 3 days they have normalized a person. if they have eaten 30% of saturated fat for one mount, they will improve with almost all diets. And also the improve of the parameter is not immediate. So the effect of what you eat in that 3 days become visible after some day non in that 3 days.
Also 3 days is a silly short time. And also 10 days
Also they dont specify caloric intake, they dont specify fiber intake,
they dont use red meat when paleo always recommend red meat, they dont specify the type of carbohydrate used if refined or unrefined or whole grains.

It is only a silly article.

Hey Mark Shields,
is this the best scientific paleo production?
i hope for you no.

hahaha....Ulialen, I always enjoy your low carb debunking work...hahaha....Not only do you do a thorough job, you also drop good bits of humor in your posts that makes me laugh....haha

[jeffrhodes]

Dr. McDougall,
First I started the wheat belly diet in January of this year weighing 345. I went the low carb part of it and found Jimmy's show. I listened to Dr. Dean Ornish on his show. I started thinking about what Dr. Ornish said about what him and Jimmy agreed on(The sugar,eating more fiber,importance of vegetables,etc) although I dropped 30 lbs on the low carb diet the more I investigated Dr. Ornish the more I started lowering my fat intake. Searching for Dr. Ornish led me to your podcast and a whole new world of plant based nutrition. Although i still do not eat wheat(I believe that extreme hybridization can be as problematic as gmo's) I eat rice, beans , and potatoes. I am doing very well and keeping my meat really down(I don't cheat on my own but sometimes people pressure me) I eat a few olives and not olive oil. I just feel great Dr. McDouugall. My weight is down to 282. Since I farm tomatoes and persimmons for a living I can listen to podcasts all day long. Now I am down an alley lol. My point is that it is important to go podcasts that you fundamentally disagree with because you reach people. If Dr. Ornish hadn't of gone on Jimmy's show I wouldn't have found your program. I wouldn't have bought the audio book "The China Study". I would not have watched Forks Over Knives. Keep on engaging Dr. Mcdougall it is very important. Low carb audiences want to be healthy so they are open to the truth. Thanks again for all the free resources you make available to the public. I am in your debt. Jeff

[plants-and-carbs]

Dr. McDougall,
First I started the wheat belly diet in January of this year weighing 345. I went the low carb part of it and found Jimmy's show. I listened to Dr. Dean Ornish on his show. I started thinking about what Dr. Ornish said about what him and Jimmy agreed on(The sugar,eating more fiber,importance of vegetables,etc) although I dropped 30 lbs on the low carb diet the more I investigated Dr. Ornish the more I started lowering my fat intake. Searching for Dr. Ornish led me to your podcast and a whole new world of plant based nutrition. Although i still do not eat wheat(I believe that extreme hybridization can be as problematic as gmo's) I just feel great Dr. McDouugall. My weight is down to 282. Since I farm tomatoes and persimmons for a living I can listen to podcasts all day long. Now I am down an alley lol. My point is that it is important to go podcasts that you fundamentally disagree with because you reach people. If Dr. Ornish hadn't of gone on Jimmy's show I wouldn't have found your program. I wouldn't have bought the audio book "The China Study". I would not have watched Forks Over Knives. Keep on engaging Dr. Mcdougall it is very important. Low carb audiences want to be healthy so they are open to the truth. Thanks again for all the free resources you make available to the public. I am in your debt. Jeff

Wow, Jeff. What a GREAT post. I love what you wrote. I do hope more low carbers take in the Dr Mcdougall interview and see his solid logic and jump ship on low carb, like you did.

Also, you grow persimmons?......mmmmmm.......I can slam down like 10 of those suckers if I don't control myself....hahaha.....yummmm

[ulialen]

Good Doc, before you pick out one study on Paleo where an intense exercise plan was followed, who knows what that stress from CrossFit would do, let's not forget other studies done on a Paleo Diet


The second article is silly:
There are no 2 group, one on a control diet and one on the diet to test but only one group that follow a regime diet for 3 day and then follow the test diet for 10 days.
And what they have eaten before that 3 days? they things that in 3 days they have normalized a person. if they have eaten 30% of saturated fat for one mount, they will improve with almost all diets. And also the improve of the parameter is not immediate. So the effect of what you eat in that 3 days become visible after some day non in that 3 days.
Also 3 days is a silly short time. And also 10 days
Also they dont specify caloric intake, they dont specify fiber intake,
they dont use red meat when paleo always recommend red meat, they dont specify the type of carbohydrate used if refined or unrefined or whole grains.

It is only a silly article.

Hey Mark Shields,
is this the best scientific paleo production?
i hope for you no.

hahaha....Ulialen, I always enjoy your low carb debunking work...hahaha....Not only do you do a thorough job, you also drop good bits of humor in your posts that makes me laugh....haha

The biggest humoristic thing is that second article.

[ulialen]

Dr. McDougall,
First I started the wheat belly diet in January of this year weighing 345. I went the low carb part of it and found Jimmy's show. I listened to Dr. Dean Ornish on his show. I started thinking about what Dr. Ornish said about what him and Jimmy agreed on(The sugar,eating more fiber,importance of vegetables,etc) although I dropped 30 lbs on the low carb diet the more I investigated Dr. Ornish the more I started lowering my fat intake. Searching for Dr. Ornish led me to your podcast and a whole new world of plant based nutrition. Although i still do not eat wheat(I believe that extreme hybridization can be as problematic as gmo's) I eat rice, beans , and potatoes. I am doing very well and keeping my meat really down(I don't cheat on my own but sometimes people pressure me) I eat a few olives and not olive oil. I just feel great Dr. McDouugall. My weight is down to 282. Since I farm tomatoes and persimmons for a living I can listen to podcasts all day long. Now I am down an alley lol. My point is that it is important to go podcasts that you fundamentally disagree with because you reach people. If Dr. Ornish hadn't of gone on Jimmy's show I wouldn't have found your program. I wouldn't have bought the audio book "The China Study". I would not have watched Forks Over Knives. Keep on engaging Dr. Mcdougall it is very important. Low carb audiences want to be healthy so they are open to the truth. Thanks again for all the free resources you make available to the public. I am in your debt. Jeff

Yes. Very good. Always you have to validate what people say and search for scientific evidence.
Also for wheat, if you havent celiac disease or an proved intollerance, you can eat it and take all the benefits of this food in the form of whole flour pasta and bread.
However remember that also whole pasta is more processed than whole grains product as brown rice. So brown rice can be eaten without limit, whole pasta with a very little of moderation and whole bread with a little more of moderation.

[Anna Green]

One of the pleasures in life- listening to Dr. Mcdougall kick Jimmy's ass while eating a big bowl of starch and veggies that I know will help me feel good and poop good too. He cracked me up when he asked Jimmy if he has constipation. Bet Jimmy lied about that one.

[Melinda]

Thanks Ulialen - your posts are well thought out and informative as always. And thanks to JeffRhodes - that is a great point about Dr. M going on these type of shows, and informing people who otherwise may not have heard of him.

[eshqua]

Wonderful post, JeffRhodes! I'm sure Dr Ornish would be happy to hear that you did your research and came around to the plant-based way of thinking!

I enjoyed the "McDougall on Jimmy Moore show" podcast and have now listened to the Jimmy Moore interview of Dr Barnard and Dr Ornish too. Very interesting. They all made excellent points. I'm not sure how any low carbers would not at least stop and think that maybe what they're doing is not good for their long-term health. Have to give Jimmy Moore credit for having plant-based guests on the show.

[Evelyn aka CarbSane]

Hey McDougall fans!

I noticed some traffic to my blog and the links to it from here. So I thought I'd add a little insight here.

Here is a little video I did about a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvrfoH-8Cz8

Jimmy famously "went paleo" after the Ancestral Health Symposium in August of 2011 which resulted in even further weight gain. His Nutritional Ketosis is anything but paleo -- lots of dairy, butter, dark chocolate, etc. He has been eating an 80-85% fat diet for a year, and yes, he has lost weight.

But his LDL particle number is through the roof, "nightmarish" as one lipidologist put it. His kidney function is also not good as he has protein, mucus and oxalate crystals in his urine, and most recently posted that his urine pH is above normal range (when it should be acidic if anything when in ketosis).

This man is very dishonest, and for some reason the rest of the community seems willing to let him get away with it. I'll give you three guesses why and the first two don't count. He lied not once, not twice but three times to Dr. McDougall's "face" in this podcast, because he has weighed less than he currently does several times in the past (although the last time would have been sometime summer-to-fall of 2007). One could excuse one misspeak, but he repeated the lie ... just as he has repeated the lie that he hasn't weighed under 250 lbs in 5 years, a claim he made repeatedly during this past year.

Now, I am not endorsing VegSource's videos, but there is really nothing all that bad about them. Jimmy Moore puts himself and his diet out there and heavily promotes it as a healthy way of eating. He posts his lipids and a lot of other stuff, yet repeatedly touts only the good parts of them. The "incorrect" part about that video, that Jimmy says McDougall "doesn't care" to correct are minor and I think he just likes to play the victim card. The only thing wrong with the pictures is that the dates are wrong. Oddly enough they don't show him at his maximum 306 lbs, yet he complained that they didn't show him at a reduced (again) weight. The other inaccuracies are that his book wasn't a best seller (I don't know why he would want to point this out!) and that he hasn't been made rich (again, why point that out, but he has made his living exclusively off of this diet since sometime in 2006 I believe).

Here's the thing. He has never contacted me about my video. Why? Because it is 100% accurate and the truth.

I myself used to follow a low carb diet but nowhere near the super high fat abominations many are following (I think even Atkins himself would be appalled). I no longer follow that but I'm an omnivore and am moderate in my diet. I say this just so folks realize I'm neither preaching to nor knocking anyone here. I'm not specifically endorsing Dr. McDougall (I frankly don't know enough to do so, and I'm metabolically healthy so have no pressing need at this time to re-evaluate my diet except to pursue further weight loss). I'm merely agreeing with many here in my assessment of Jimmy Moore and his diet.

There is a huge paleo and low carb internet community that has succeeded in silencing almost any contrary opinions through any means necessary. From my viewpoint it is pretty scary really. We'll know when the end is nigh when Jimmy invites me back on his podcast (he won't, because if I returned I would not be nervous, nor would I allow him to stray from the science) just to generate traffic.

If I do any updates on Mr. Moore I'll come post links here. It is important that people know the truth about this man whatever their diet or nutritional views.

[Quiet Heather]

I just listened to the podcast and thought it was very good.

Jimmy Moore could not deny that whole-food carbs do not make people fat and sick in all of the cultures Dr. McDougall brought up. Instead, he tried to say that the processed carbs prevalent in the SAD cause such damage in the body that people then cannot tolerate whole-food carbs anymore and must resort to eating an animal-based low carb diet to regain their health. However, he did not provide any proof at all that this is true. He just stated the he is currently healthy on high animal fat low carb and so are many others, but just stating it does not make it necessarily true.

I wish Dr. McDougall would have asked him what his cholesterol numbers were when he was saying just how healthy he is now. Of course, that wouldn't mean much to people who don't believe that having high cholesterol is bad, including Jimmy and probably most of his loyal fans.

I also wish Jimmy could see the connection between the refined carbs he blames for his own obesity and poor health and the refined oils that most certainly come along with them. Jimmy has no problem eliminating practically all carbs from his diet because overeating the bad carbs made him unhealthy, but he would never consider eliminate practically all fat because overeating bad fats made him unhealthy.

But that, to me, is completely illogical. There is undeniable proof that the whole, unprocessed carbs in potatoes, rice, lentils, etc. are healthy foods upon which to base your diet. However, there is no such proof that butter, coconut oil, and fatty cuts of meat are healthy foods which should comprise the majority of your calories. And yet, that is exactly what Jimmy has done. He got it completely backwards, and I'm afraid he's going to suffer the inevitable consequences.

[jeffrhodes]

Thanks for all the encouragement. Although between 2004 and 2007 I went from 360 to 212 on the Zone diet(much more carbs than Atkins) my journey starting January 1st only had a stint of 2 months on a very low carb diet. From 2007 to the beginning of this year I was eating the standard american diet( a lot of it) To be honest I never made the connection between my eating meat in excess and my being so overweight with an out of control hunger. The weight training I began in 2004 became a trojan horse because of the excessive amount of whey protein I was consuming. By 2007 I started inurying my elbows and shoulders. I now understand that the excessive protein was acidic and causing calcium lost. My doctor made me quit lifting heavy weights for six months. This caused me to lose my motivation and in 3 years I was back up over 300 again.
This January my sister told me to give up wheat and I started listening to Jimmy's show. As I said earlier I only did the extreme low carbs for only about 2 months. I did like the weight loss 45lbs in 2 months i didn't feel good eating bacon and eggs all the time, but I did like the massive amounts of vegetables I was eating. Dr. Ornish said to listen to your body. I did post a message telling how much I appreciated his advice on Livin La Vida and he liked my facebook post.
I feel like I am on a good plan and I really feel great without all the meat. Thanks again for all the encouragement.
Jeff

[ulialen]

Thanks for all the encouragement. Although between 2004 and 2007 I went from 360 to 212 on the Zone diet(much more carbs than Atkins) my journey starting January 1st only had a stint of 2 months on a very low carb diet. From 2007 to the beginning of this year I was eating the standard american diet( a lot of it) To be honest I never made the connection between my eating meat in excess and my being so overweight with an out of control hunger. The weight training I began in 2004 became a trojan horse because of the excessive amount of whey protein I was consuming. By 2007 I started inurying my elbows and shoulders. I now understand that the excessive protein was acidic and causing calcium lost. My doctor made me quit lifting heavy weights for six months. This caused me to lose my motivation and in 3 years I was back up over 300 again.
This January my sister told me to give up wheat and I started listening to Jimmy's show. As I said earlier I only did the extreme low carbs for only about 2 months. I did like the weight loss 45lbs in 2 months i didn't feel good eating bacon and eggs all the time, but I did like the massive amounts of vegetables I was eating. Dr. Ornish said to listen to your body. I did post a message telling how much I appreciated his advice on Livin La Vida and he liked my facebook post.
I feel like I am on a good plan and I really feel great without all the meat. Thanks again for all the encouragement.
Jeff

Wheat is not the guilty. Cheese, meat and fat is the guilty.
You can eat wheat. However unless you eat whole grains (but usually we eat flour products), you have to limit a little but only a little whole flour pasta and whole flour bread if you have to loose very much weight.
Wheat is a great food. it have to be avoid only by people with celiac disease or by people with proved intolerance.

It is incredible how Paleo promoters have pushed the fear of such good food as wheat in the mind of people.

Because you come from a plaeo diet, you can find useful to read this:

http://www.plantpositive.com

Here you will find explained many things and also you will find that whole wheat is a great product.

you can find very useful such article proposed by mcdougall that explain that even the white bread when is not eaten with fat laden food can make loose weight:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/ ... starch.htm