To clarify my comments...
veggylvr wrote: I can certainly understand why the doctors or other plant-based advocates wouldn't use the term. They have a larger responsibility to deliver a health message, and any inconsistencies would be critiqued and ridiculed.
The same holds true for those of us, who in describing what we eat or what we want to eat, do not want to be seen as inconsistent, even if it is just in our daily lives, even if we are just describing our diet. Many have commented in this thread about the inconsistencies it raises for them. I agree with them. As did the panel, which was speaking in regard to much more than just their professional health message.
veggylvr wrote:Most of us, however, aren't delivering any message except what we need to eat.
In many cases, such as when ordering at a restaurant or when explaining to someone who invited you over for dinner, this is true. However, in addition, for many people, there is more to the picture because each time they describe their diet to someone else, they are also sharing (or wanting to share) in their own little way, a little bit of this WOE and this WOL and the message of health and hope that it carries with it.
Therefore, in both cases, describing it accurately is important and while it is true that for many people following this WOE, their diets will be able to be classified vegan, the term vegan falls way short of describing many of the most important aspects.
Because of my unique position, many of the people who come to me are already vegan and/or plant based/strong/perfect, yet they are not well. And, one of their main frustrations they have is that they have been doing the vegan and/or plant based/strong/perfect for some time and it does not seem to be working for them in the same way they hear it does for so many others. There have even been many such discussion in these very forums.
In fact, one of the biggest problems I see in helping people improve their diet is their use of the term vegan to describe their diet or their food choices. So much so, that I ask people not to use the term when discussing what they eat with me.
At the last 10 day program, in one of the classes, we had a long discussion on why the use of the thought process, "well at least it was vegan" can do more harm than good especially for those who are on the path of improving their health, as by using that phrase, they are mixing up two concepts. Too many times, I hear people say that they were out to a restaurant and/or at an event or party and there was not any healthy food to eat so they ate "so and so" food, and then they say to me, "but at least it was vegan!" This tells me absolutely nothing about the food other than it had not animal products in it. And, sadly, most of the time, the food they choose may have been high in fat, sat fat, oil, salt, sugar, refined/processed grains and low in fiber, etc etc (or all of the above) and was nothing more than pure junk food.
The worst part is not that such a food on a rare occasion may hurt them, but that they believe it was OK or "more" OK, because it was "vegan." However, I am not promoting veganism or vegan food but health and healthy food and so an unhealthy choice should not be rationalized in a discussion of health as being a healthy choice just because it is vegan. Label it what is it. Don't say, "at least it was vegan, say "I ate some pure unhealthy junk food that was vegan."
Best of all, make a healthy choice, and/or do the best you can in regard to making a healthy choice and keep that the focus. And, for most of us, it will be vegan too.
I travel about 60% of the time and so am on the road and eating out often. I have found that some of the worst restaurants for me are ones that promote themselves as serving vegan and/or vegetarian options, with those promoting the concept of "raw" being the worse. I rarely if ever can find anything to eat at these restaurants that is healthy. And, if I have to go through the same process of special ordering to get something healthy, then why did I even have to go to a veg/vegan/raw restaurant to begin with as they usually charge more. At our local (and famous) vegan restaurant (at which I can not eat), you are charged extra if you want your food made with whole grains. The most popular item on their menu is their fried cauliflower.
I was at a recent health conference put on by a traditional group. For dinner there was a choice of fish, chicken or vegan. I asked what was the vegan choice and they said a lasagna dish made with vegan cheese, etc. No sides of veggies (as they were supposed to be in the lasagna). So, I asked what was the chicken dish. They said, grilled chicken, with sides of steamed vegetables and sweet potato. I ordered the chicken dish and traded my piece of chicken with the person next to me for their steamed veggies and sweet potato. The non vegan choice was the better choice.
This is why I often say that steak houses are my favorite healthy restaurants. I can get a large plain baked (or sweet) potato, a large salad and some plain steamed veggies without any problems and the fancier the place, the easier it is.
I am currently traveling on vacation and last week I stopped in to a new restaurant featuring local, organic, fresh, healthy, vegetarian food. However, there was nothing I will eat. One item they have is a "Warm Kale Salad" which is finished w/Braggs and it says .. A healthy alternative to soy sauce. So i asked the server, what is Braggs and she said its a healthy alternative to soy as it has much less sodium.
It has the same amount!
And if they are promoting themselves as veg and healthy, they need to know this. Everything is marked veg, or gluten free, organic etc but its all white flour and some of the veg stuff has eggs & milk and the vegan is full of oil.
We spoke to the owner who said, come in for dinner and their chef will make me whatever I want. So, I did. I ordered a large version of an appetizer salad that was ok and got me about 100 calories at most (for about $10). Then we special ordered a plate of quinoa, and steamed vegetables. We reviewed this with the manager several times, emphasizing that I wanted just plain steamed veggies and a starch, either quinoa, brown rice or a sweet potato. Our plate come out and it was a little salad on 1/3 the plate, which I did not need as I already paid $10 for a salad, a small pile of quinoa and a small pile of mixed vegetables DRIPPING in oil and full of salt. It may have been vegan but I would not eat it.
So we got up and left (leaving a few bucks to cover the costs) and ate next door at the Thai place and got nice size salads, steamed edamame without any salt, and a plate full of steamed veggies & steamed brown rice. All for half the price
This is what happens to many who go out to eat and describe their diet as vegan. They may think it is easier, but it does not work and they are often left with unhealthy options that they rationalize as healthy because they are vegan.
Your perspective may be different, but mine is as a healthy person and as a health professional who works with unhealthy people (many of them already vegan) to help them get well, and from that perspective, the word vegan simply does not work.
For those who missed it, they may enjoy this thread and option 21.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16395&p=149495In Health
Jeff