Question for the Ladies

[noodle]

I am in surgical menopause. Dr. McDougall recommends using Pro-Gest in his women's health book. At the health food store they have it, but it has a warning sign above it saying it can cause cancer

Have any of you experience with this cream? What should I do. I'm new to all this.

Sorry for such an embarrasing post.

[serenity]

Dr McD specifically recommended it to me to balance estrogen dominance.

It is true that messing with hormones should not be taken lightly, but remember you are in California. We are subjected to warnings about cancer everytime we enter a grocery store or restaurant; it's the law if there is any chance at all of being exposed to a carcinogen. I would recommend doing your homework, being clear about what you hope to achieve, and if you use it, being alert to any indications that you are using too much.

There is a site called hystersisters that has lists of symptoms that occur when estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone levels are too high or too low. You might find it useful.

[McSuegall]

I've been in surgical menopause myself for about 6 years now myself. Fun stuff eh? That Hystersister website was a godsend to me during that time.

I haven't tried the Pro Gest...I've tried other brands, but didn't really notice a difference. Are you taking any prescription hormones? I was on Premarin for a long time, but once I found out what it was made from (pregnant mares urine ) I was switched over to something called estrace, it's supposed to be "natural". I hate taking this poison. But I can't seem to get off of it. Right now I'm trying to wean more slowly than I did in the past, I take a half pill/whole pill/half pill/whole pill etc.....I'm hoping to go to whole/half/half/whole/half/half/whole soon and then get to just taking a half and of course eventually getting off all together. The hot flashes are so unbearable when I come off too quickly. I've been doing pretty good so far with the whole/half/whole...

I'd love to hear of others ideas/alternatives/suggestions. Oh...and this isn't an embarrassing subject at all!

[noodle]

.Thank you Serenity for your response. You are right about CA. Too much regulation for me! I will for sure check out hystersisters.

Thank you McSuegall. I just had the surgery 11 weeks ago. While I was still in the hosp. the Dr. put an estrogen patch on me. It was awful, lots of nausea. So then she prescribed Premarin. I took it for two weeks and was still nauseated the whole time. I lost 15 lbs. in that time. So now I'm taking no hormones at all, and am taking an herb called Black Cohosh that Dr.McDougall mentions in his book. My hot flashes have gone from over 20 in a 24 hour period, to about 6 now in a 24 hour period, and they are less intense. I am also starting exercising again, which I know will help.

I just talked to my doctor's nurse on the phone. She said I might want to try Vagifem for the dryness. It supposedly has no side effects and is very low dose. So, I guess I need to do alot more reading and studying on this matter.

Thanks so much to the both of you for your help. I feel better now.

[SandyW]

I too am and have been in surgical menopause and a few years ago I read the book by Dr. John Lee called "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause" and decided to start weaning myself off of the Premarin I was on. I followed his recommendations to do this slowly and then went out and bought the Pro-Gest...at first I felt fine and thought it was great. Well, soon after that I started getting a few hot flashes which I could handle, but then I started feeling bad and soon had urinary tract problems...funny feeling down there and always having to go...I got scared and thought I must have some sort of infection so I went to my GYN and I did not have an infection, but was so low on estrogen which was why I was having these problems...I never knew or thought about the urinary tract needing estrogen to keep us problem free, but I know now. Anyway, the Pro-Gest never seemed to make a difference and since I didn't want to take the Premarin anymore, my doctor then put me on the lowest dose you can get of the Vivelle Dot patch and I also use a vaginal estrogen which keeps everything running smoothly on the "south end" of things. I'm not happy about having to take or use anything, but I don't know how else to get around the problems I would have without it. My question I'm wondering about now, to myself, is "what if I stop using the patch and just use the vaginal estrogen"...wondering if I'd be OK doing that, but not yet ready to try it. Having that urinary tract problem from lack of estrogen really scared me. I know we are all different, so what might work for one, might not work for another one...but that's my story. Also, be sure to check out the hystersisters site that the others have mentioned...there is a lot of good information there. Take care.

[Lin]

I, too, am in surgical menopause because I had uterine cancer when I was 38. I have been in surgical menopause for 10 years now.

My advice is the same as most everyone else's who have replied. I tried an estrogen patch and it was horrible. I finally ended up reading the works of Dr. John Lee and decided to try natural progesterone cream. I use Progesta-Care and have been doing so for quite a few years now. It works o.k. for me. I haven't found anything else any better yet!

I feel for anybody who has to endure surgical menopause.
It's horrible.
We don't realize how important our ovaries are until we lose them. I don't even feel like the same person that I used to be.
Losing weight is also extra difficult.

I'm not sure about this, but I think it was Pumpkin that recently posted something about Black Cohosh being very dangerous for some people. If she's around, I hope she'll post about it again. I think we were on the old board when she posted about it before.

Noodle, I hope you can get everything worked out alright. We're all so different and sometimes what works for one person, doesn't work for another.

[noodle]

Lin and Sandy - Thanks to both of you for your thoughtful and honest posts. I guess that's what is so frustrating to me at this point. What works for one person may not work for another. Alot of grey areas, and I am a person who likes things black and white, cut and dried.

I am also, like you and most McDougallers, someone who wants to go the most natural route possible.

The black cohosh, I have read, is only dangerous if you take more than 40 mg. a day. It can cause nausea. I have had absolutely no problems with it sticking to that dosage. I also plan to not be on it forever. I have a few times forgotten to take a dose, and did not have an increase in hot flashes. I'm hoping that as I up my exercise level, I can just forget taking the black cohosh altogether.

Thanks again. This has all been a help to me. I'm determined to be better because of all this and come out on top.

[Lin]

I followed his recommendations to do this slowly and then went out and bought the Pro-Gest...at first I felt fine and thought it was great. Well, soon after that I started getting a few hot flashes which I could handle, but then I started feeling bad and soon had urinary tract problems...funny feeling down there and always having to go...I got scared and thought I must have some sort of infection so I went to my GYN and I did not have an infection, but was so low on estrogen which was why I was having these problems...I never knew or thought about the urinary tract needing estrogen to keep us problem free, but I know now. I also use a vaginal estrogen which keeps everything running smoothly on the "south end" of things. I'm not happy about having to take or use anything, but I don't know how else to get around the problems I would have without it. My question I'm wondering about now, to myself, is "what if I stop using the patch and just use the vaginal estrogen"...wondering if I'd be OK doing that, but not yet ready to try it. Having that urinary tract problem from lack of estrogen really scared me.

SandyW,
I'm very interested about what you wrote about low estrogen. As I just wrote in my other post, I use Progesta-Care and it takes care of my menopause symptoms as well as anything else I've tried. However, in the last year or so, I've been noticing that I have to urinate more freguently and after your post, I wonder if I could be suffering from low estrogen. I tried using a couple of different natural estrogens a long time ago, but they made me feel sick and people that I talked to then said that as long as I had plenty of fat cells, that I shouldn't need extra estrogen because my fat cells should produce enough. Well, I still have plenty of fat cells
even though I don't want them!!!
I've been struggling through this for 10 years now and I don't guess I'll ever feel the same again.

What type of test did your Dr. do to test your estrogen level. As far as I know, I've never had mine tested. I've been wondering if maybe my urinary urgency problem is because my bladder has dropped down or moved, because a lot of women have that problem some years after a hysterectomy. I've talked to several people who have had that problem, and one of them had to have surgery to correct it. uuhhh, don't even want to think about more surgery.
I also never wanted to take estrogen because I had uterine cancer which is an estrogen dominant disease and I didn't want to encourage more cancer somewhere else. Taking estrogen would have made me even more likely to have breast cancer, for example.

Is the vaginal estrogen that you use, a prescription?

It is such a shame that I didn't know about McDougalling long before I had all of these awful problems that I can now do nothing about.
Well, at least I'm eating healthy now!

[TerryP]

Hi Noodle,

I took Pro-Gest for a few years and spent a bundle on it while doing it. Also took Black Cohosh for a while. I tried these things to try and help my menopausal symptoms. I abandon the pro-gest because from what I read, like everything else, they didn't know how dangerous it could be cancer wise. So I quit. I was on Premarin for over a year before that until I had a temporary woman doctor tell me one day rather loudly, GET OFF THAT CRAP! LOL Then I read up on it and it's terrible stuff. I felt like I had been a guinea pig long enough. Anyway, my regular doctor wasn't to happy about the temp doctor telling me to get off the premarin but frankly I was very thankful someone actually spoke up and a doctor no less.

So to date, I found that none of that stuff worked for me. So I continued to suffer and suffer I did. Then I found dr mcdougall just as my hot flashed were getting worse and worse by the day/week. I tried so hard not to take anything I hate drugs and I don't trust many herbal things either that's just me. When I went McDougall my hot flashes became almost non-existent. It was amazing. My long suffering was over and I could speak nicely to my poor hubby again. LOL He's so patient and I'm so lucky. But the dryness is another story...;-} Oh and memory loss...............

Ohhhhh it's so nice to be a womannnnnnnnnnnn!!!!;-)

Take wonderful care. I hope you can find some help from these wonderful people!

[SandyW]

Lin,

I sent you a PM.

[noodle]

Thanks TerryP for responding. I am really glad to hear that McDougalling has been the help you needed, that's great. I'm sure I'd be alot worse off if I wasn't eating healthy.

I am very sure that all that I have gone through will be a positive learning experience for me. Yesterday I did some exercising, and I feel so much better and brighter already. WOO HOO!

Thanks to all the gals that responded. You are all terrific!

[Faith in DC]

I used it for a couple years for natural pre-menopausal symptoms. I loved it. But that wouldn't be long enough to cause cancer I'd think. I'd ask the good doc.