My family disgusts me

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, John McDougall, carolve, Heather McDougall

My family disgusts me

Postby Vegan » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:12 pm

.
Last edited by Vegan on Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vegan
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:46 am

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby jay kaye » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:36 pm

Don't get upset about it. People say stupid things. Not a reason to dump your relationship. When they get sick and in pain they may seek change. Just keep up your standards and be their model of good health. Be glad you found the truth and have some compassion that they may yet reform.
J
jay kaye
 
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:35 am
Location: Santa Barbara-near Rincon California

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby f1jim » Mon May 02, 2022 3:02 am

Agreed!
Don't wait on family or friends to improve your diet. It may be disastrous to your own health!
Just be the beacon of light as much as you can and hope for the best for those that don't see it.
f1jim
While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
User avatar
f1jim
 
Posts: 11349
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: Pacifica, CA

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby curcubit » Fri May 13, 2022 8:15 am

Definitely do not wait for their approval or wait on them to change. I am 60, and have been some form of vegan or vegetarian for 42 years and my elderly parents (84 and 87) STILL do not understand I dont eat animal products. They always offer me pork chops, cheese, etc. etc. I gave up caring long ago, and just know I need to bring my own food when visiting. They are brainwashed by carnism. this might be useful for coping: https://carnism.org/. There is a short animated video called "what to say to vegans" that might help them see the light.
"One cannot pick a flower without troubling a star." Aldo Leopold
curcubit
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:54 am

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby Trinity » Fri May 13, 2022 6:50 pm

Hey Vegan,

I see you edited your original post but I know how you feel, at least partially. I heard something new from Dr. Lisle on his most recent Q&A with AJ (January) which made me sad on the one hand, but a little more forgiving on the other. It’s that he says after 40+ years of clinical experience, very few people can really do this. It takes a certain type of personality. Most people just can’t; the Pleasure Trap is too powerful for them. If you have a minute (actually it’s an hour though I’m only about 40 min in) I recommend watching it. And don’t feel bad about venting, it’s what a lot of us do here because there’s no one else who understands.

Hope this helps,
Trinity
User avatar
Trinity
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby JeffN » Sat May 14, 2022 8:13 am

Trinity wrote: I heard something new from Dr. Lisle on his most recent Q&A with AJ (January) which made me sad on the one hand, but a little more forgiving on the other. It’s that he says after 40+ years of clinical experience, very few people can really do this. It takes a certain type of personality. Most people just can’t; the Pleasure Trap is too powerful for them.


Doug and I have talked about this quite a bit over the years and I agree.

We may be the two people with the most experience working directly with clients over the longest time. For me, it's been 35 years.

It's not just the pleasure trap, but that we live in an environment that surrounds us with calorie dense, highly palatable, pleasure trap foods. It has been called a toxic and obesogenic environment.

"The term toxic food environment was coined by Kelly D. Brownell in his book, Food Fight: The Inside Story of the Food Industry which describes American culture at the end of the 20th century as one that fosters and promotes obesity and unprecedented food consumption. In the United States, the food environment the citizens are encompassed in makes it far too hard to choose healthy foods, and all too easy to choose unhealthy foods. Some call this food environment "'toxic' because of the way it corrodes healthy lifestyles and promotes obesity"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_food_environment

The term, "‘obesogenic environment’ has been coined to refer to the influences that the surroundings, opportunities or conditions of life have on promoting obesity in individuals and populations".

https://bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com/a ... 20-01538-5

There are steps we can take and habits we can develop to minimize the impact but it is not easy.

And, those who come to our programs here are usually a self-selected group, usually highly motivated and well educated.

There are a few posts that review these steps in my forum. Here is a thread that contains a lot of the discussion and some links to other ones.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=44133

Knowing this, perhaps we could have more compassion on those who are not able to do it.

In Health
Jeff

Jeff
User avatar
JeffN
 
Posts: 9412
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:56 am

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby Drew_ab » Sat May 14, 2022 7:58 pm

I am not sure what the original post said, but I think I get the general thrust of it. For me personally, having open heart surgery twice by the time I was in my mid-twenties was all the reason I needed to change. I could not have cared less what anyone in my family, workplace, or society thought about my plans (it also gave me a really good "excuse" to provide others in social settings). Pain is an incredible motivator for change and when you experience such a significant crisis, I think change is much easier. For most people who are just going about their daily business and feeling "okay enough" doing so, it is extremely unlikely they will be motivated to change. It is not impossible but I wouldn't count on it. I wish the world didn't work that way but far too often it does...

In the 11+ years I have been following this WOE, one thing has changed about me. Early on I wanted to shout from the mountain top about the power of diet based predominantly on whole plant foods (and I sure did try my best coming at this from every conceivable angle). I have learned that it is more effective for me to be a lighthouse and to attempt be a shining example, rather than someone preaching the benefits - some family/friends have joined me along the way but sadly many people for whom I care deeply have not and probably never will. I do have an enormous amount of compassion though since there is close to a 0% chance I would have made this change had I not been in a life threatening situation. Kindness and compassion are always virtues to word towards.

Just some passing thoughts...
Drew_ab
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:03 am

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby barryoilbegone » Sun May 15, 2022 5:03 pm

Emotional floodgates opened for me as well, after reading... it's probably accurate to say I'd guess many of our families here sadden, depress and infuriate us? Definitely mine so as well, however much I love them.

Everybody here is right, and I get totally Jeff's toxic food and obesogenic environment references. Still... it's like watching for me somebody choose to keep on throwing away the winning lottery ticket, time and again, if they become informed. They don't feel it's the winning lottery ticket of course somehow, which is why they refuse.

Nobody's perfect of course, but the change in some people around me is just so little, it's still amazing how far the mental gymnastics start to stretch to stop anything changing. it's especially devastating to see family do this. I envy so much stories I see sometimes from this site, or on Forks Over Knives site etc. of people's family and friends joining in. Many of my family still label me strange and a weird outlier I'm sure - part of me disgusts them...?! I suppose? God, that sounds sad. I envy, really envy, the extra life and time together other families and friends might well have, when my own and others will probably be cut unnecessarily short and in great pain.

Drew-ab's comment is pretty emotional for me, as I think what riles me most perhaps is that, when a next close family member has a heart attack/stroke etc. I'll be expected I'm sure by other family to coo and cry over how "unlucky" they were... to support their doctor's every decision to try and make them better, or comfortable. Even though neither they, nor their doctor, may even look at what could well have caused that heart attack or stroke. "

"Stay silent, or you don't stay at all". "Don't dare start with that whole food plant based nonsense' - that'll be the nonverbal messages, from some I know.

Still not quite sure then what I'll do, if and when that happens to the next family member. But yep, family and friends can dismay all right. I'm grateful too we can write here about it. I know we can all struggle with change so much - anybody - and how left field this still is to most people. Humans are weird creatures.

Thanks all for reading - appreciated :thumbsup: As I'm pretty such that my close ones still won't be reading this forum any time soon, doubly appreciated today.
"All people are made alike - of bones and flesh and dinner. Only the dinners are different.”

Gertrude Louise Cheney
User avatar
barryoilbegone
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:28 am
Location: Kent, UK

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby VegSeekingFit » Sun May 15, 2022 8:41 pm

Hi,

I am so 100% with the thought that it is compassion and kindness that we should treat people with.

I appreciate that Trinity posted about a Doug Lisle lecture (that I will listen to) and that Jeff Novick posted about his many, many years of experience in this arena. Many people can't do this... I am not super-surprised (although I wish this were different)...

Vegan, Hi, I think that I saw your post before it was deleted. In my opinion, your emotions are what they are and hoping that you can work through them (and I think it is normal to have strong emotions when you know something that may help your loved ones that they won't do). I think many of us may face similar challenges with knowing what could be known to reverse multiple diseases, but we are not able to share knowledge to our loved ones that would enable them to have better outcomes (or they aren't receptive). I am not sure if this may help you, but I have found it helpful to talk with an uninvolved /neutral third-party (friend, counselor, etc.). Wishing you the best as you work through this. Thinking that we all want to keep great relationships with our family and friends (who do not follow McD) --- or we would be pretty lonely!!

I will share a bit here - that may or may not be relevant...

This post by Jeff Novick on Natala's (from Engine 2) working with a client super-resonated with me. Reason is that this person could have been my mom, but with different medical issues.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42240&p=437677&hilit=natala#p437677

Against all odds, my mother was the ONLY person ever who was interested in what I did (when I followed McD back in 2003 and was able to stop recurrence of JRA / other auto-immune disease). I certainly wasn't selling it, but she asked and I helped her to clean environment and determine what to purchase to follow this program (and helped her to cook, etc.). This was limited, as in Natala's example -- my mother had physical limitations even in what she could cook and she couldn't exercise. My mom ultimately followed the McD diet for about 3 months and made amazing progress. She lost somewhere between 40-50 lbs... she WALKED OUTSIDE with her cane for small distances (but never in my life had she WALKED OUTSIDE)...her edema was so much better... We were even talking about going to McD 10 Day (I was working out logistics as she couldn't travel easily)...

So one day, she called me to help her put her Peapod groceries away. I went there and instead of potato / carrot / pea, etc... it was bags of junk food... Yeah... no warning, discussion, etc. I asked her what was up with this and she told me that she could no longer find joy in going out to eat with her friends (was her #1 favorite thing to do) --- even though she could have baked potato / salad. I know (but I didn't have her explain herself) that it was more than that...

I will just say that I was heartbroken because she was doing so awesome... However, this was my mom and I would always support her. I do still feel guilt -- like maybe I could have done or said something better. I think that we all do the best that we can... and everyone has the right to make their own choice... Peace.

Best,
Stephanie
"Just put one foot in front of the other and don't worry about the length of the path.
Once you get on that path, and the longer you stay on it, there eventually will come a time when you will not turn back." - Martina Navratilova
User avatar
VegSeekingFit
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Illinois

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby barryoilbegone » Wed May 18, 2022 12:13 pm

Gutting, Stephanie... really sorry for you, and your mom, and if her friends weren't interested in supporting her, or joining in.

Not sure if your mom is still alive or not from the post, but I guess I was curious if she ever spoke more about her friends? Did they make any demeaning comments or the like... or did you feel she might have been using them as a reason not to continue? (I noted the junk food bags...).
"All people are made alike - of bones and flesh and dinner. Only the dinners are different.”

Gertrude Louise Cheney
User avatar
barryoilbegone
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:28 am
Location: Kent, UK

Re: My family disgusts me

Postby VegSeekingFit » Thu May 19, 2022 8:11 pm

barryoilbegone wrote:Gutting, Stephanie... really sorry for you, and your mom, and if her friends weren't interested in supporting her, or joining in.

Not sure if your mom is still alive or not from the post, but I guess I was curious if she ever spoke more about her friends? Did they make any demeaning comments or the like... or did you feel she might have been using them as a reason not to continue? (I noted the junk food bags...).


Hi Barry!

Thank you for being kind... :)

I realized from your post that I was a bit cryptic in my original response. Also, I usually like to stay away from the Lounge (but something triggered me to reply here)!!!

Why Did I even respond:
1) Thinking that we should always be compassionate to folks that can't follow the Program (even if they have had fantastic interim results).
2) We don't want to lose family / friend relationships... over McD-ing... We try to help ones we love the best we can...
3) I imagine that everyone following this has similar experience / can't save someone that we care deeply about...
4) Everyone's emotions are simply what they are ... other folks can help us work through them --- and it may be helpful to seek support when going through situation..

Addressing your questions... Yes, my mom passed away about 3.5 yrs ago... Perhaps worse was the 10 yrs. preceding where she was "shut-in" and of that 3 yrs. in a long-term care facility...

She was feeding me a bs line to get me to stop asking questions with the friends / lunch thing... It was always the junk food / Pleasure Trap (and I do understand why...) . I am still in contact with her best friend at least bi-monthly and she is both the nicest and most supportive person that I have ever met. Further, my mother would have been well-suited to swim upstream --- for instance, she always wrote disclaimers on permission slips... She was one of the strongest people I have ever known...

Keep going!!! We can help ourselves... :)

Best,
Stephanie
"Just put one foot in front of the other and don't worry about the length of the path.
Once you get on that path, and the longer you stay on it, there eventually will come a time when you will not turn back." - Martina Navratilova
User avatar
VegSeekingFit
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:21 am
Location: Illinois


Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests



Welcome!

Sign up to receive our regular articles, recipes, and news about upcoming events.