Has anyone tried the veg-first option?

[PamM]

That was probably a confusing subject line. I mean, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's implemented the raw veg-then cooked veg-*then* starch version of MWL that Dr McD talked about in his newsletter about the first all-MWL 10-day program he did, and how it worked for you.

I like the idea -- cuz you'd get tons of veg in that way -- but it seems logistically difficult to me . . . but if it's worth it, I'd try it!

Thx. Pam

[VeggieSue]

Do you mean when he says to eat your leafy salad first, then grab some soup, and after that fill your plate with cooked veggies and the entrée? He suggests that for all the plans, not just MWLP. Supposedly you fill up on low cal, nutrient dense foods first so your stomach is already mostly full by the time you get around to the entrée.

That doesn't work with me. I take so long to eat that by the time I'm finished with my salad I'm hungry again, so I grab a bowl or 2 (or 3) of soup. By the time I finish my soup I'm more than ready for the main dish, and usually have 2 or more servings of that, too.

Dinner at our house lasts a long time, at least for me. Hubby, a normal weight person, wolfs his food down and can finish his entire meal in less than 10 minutes, from the first bite of salad to the last sip of soda. I take twice that just for my salad, and by the time I leave the table it's sometimes an hour and a half later. About an hour after that I'm ready for my evening fruit snack (We don't do desserts in our house except on special occasions).

I never understood how some people can eat a small bowl of salad and a cup of broth and say they're stuffed. LOL

[Faith in DC]

That newsletter must still be in my read pile cause I didn't remember him ever saying that. I know many many other doctors do. Really I do pretty good eating that way, and have very little starch if I do eat that way, with the salad, then soup and then starch.

The evenings though are so hectic I rarely get to do that. I think it would work for most.

[southerngirlgoingvegan]

Can anyone point me to a link to read the newletter about the veg first option?

Thanks!

Laura

[PamM]

Thanks, everybody, for your responses. Laura, it's in the Jan '05 newsletter, Pushing Your Set Point to the Limits -- The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss, and I think somewhere Dr Lisle talks about it too, about it having a dramatic effect on weight loss. I just wondered if anyone had actually been able to *do* it outside of an enviroment where someone else was doing all the cooking.

Thx. Pam

[southerngirlgoingvegan]

I am amazed at the wealth of resources on this forum and in the website. I have been "attempting" to eat a plant based organic diet for over a year. While my nutritional intake has risen due to the addition of all the bright veggies and fruit, I succomb to the SAD at least once a week. It is as if I have a battle of the minds going on and I argue within myself regarding the elimination of all meat and dairy products. Thank you so much for your prompt answer. I am looking forward to moving forward!

Laura

[PamM]

Hey, Laura. I totally understand about the battle of the minds, but having done this program myself for several years, I *know* it works and that our health only improves with the elimination of meat and dairy. You're right that there's tons of info here, from Dr McD himself, which is wonderful, but if you need personal stories and pep talks as well, please just ask -- folks here are happy to provide!!

Pam

[southerngirlgoingvegan]

I read a recent series of articles about the negative impact of consuming cooked vegetables. In essence they claim that when veggies or fruits are cooked their compositions change and when we consume them it causes our white blood cell count to increase as if there is a foreign "invader". Granted this is on a site that advocates a totally raw diet for optimal health, but I was surprised at the information. Has anyone else done any studying on the impact of raw vs cooked vegetables?

PS - It seems the more I read, the more extreme - or I could say simple : ) - nutrition can become.

I am new at this site and don't want to seem like a "nut" : )

Laura

[PamM]

Well, you won't seem that way to me! I've spent a lot of time on the raw boards in the last couple of years and they can be oh so seductive -- they're so *sure* about everything. Here is where I find Dr. Fuhrman's work very useful to give perspective -- he's all for the virtues of raw food, but not for the hue-and-cry against *cooked* foods; he says there's a lot of sloppy science in the raw food movement, and it seems to me to be so. I think you'll find that claims like that are based on some other raw person's claim and/or ultimately on some really, really old studies from the '30s, probably not done on humans. The worst you can say about cooked veg is that it's lower in some nutrients than the same plant raw -- BUT it is also higher in some absorbable nurtrients than the same plant cooked. Both is best for optimal nutrition.

My 2 cents.

Thx. Pam

[prairiedream]

southerngirl, I think we've been on the same raw boards and reading the same stuff lately, I just recently read about the raise in white blood cells, too, but I didn't see any actual evidence to back it up.

I get confused myself by how adamant the raw people are, but frankly, some of their logic doesn't make sense to me, and I rarely see anything pointing to scientific studies to back up their claims. I do eat maybe 1/3 of my diet in the form of salads, and also include fruits in my diet, and I think that's good enough for me.

The one book I read recently (80/10/10 Diet) advocates eating only fruit as the carbohydrate portion of the diet, yet when I eat only one meal a day as all fruit, my mouth breaks out in sores. I've been told that it's my body "de-toxing" but I just don't buy that. How do they know my body is de-toxing? So far I've found McDougall to be the easiest diet for me to follow, with the best results.

[PamM]

Well said, prairiedream! And if you follow raw discussion boards for any length of time, you'll find people having trouble with 80/10/10 because of the amount of fruit -- hair loss, tooth issues, muscle wasting. My impression is that for some folks it works well for a time, but hardly for anyone long term (with Doug Graham obviously being an exception, assuming that he *does* follow it).

[Casey]

I'm not familiar with the raw veg boards, but I agree with Prairiedream that Dr McDougall's diet is the easiest to follow with the best results.

Every so often, I think "I could do better" and start trying to implement/add new ideas to my McDougall diet. That is when I go downhill, gain weight, start eating foods I don't want to eat .... I think if you stick with Dr McDougall, all nutrition bases can be covered.

Good luck!

[southerngirlgoingvegan]

I love this forum! I have been studying these topics for years and trying to talk to friends and family about health and nutrition but with no one to really discuss things with. Thank you all for your replies.

Yesterday was a good day for me - oatmeal, apples (2), salad, vegan bean soup with brown rice added to it. I did have a 1/4" of vegan home made chocolate before I went to bed . Maybe I better look it up - I make it with organic dates, vanilla, and cocoa beans that I grind. I am pleased to find that it is easy to eliminate most of the olive oil I had been using. I found that adding cooked squash and onions to my salad added the moisture that I wanted to mix things together in lieu of oil.


Will anyone share what a typical day of nourishment is like for them? I did not bother to do a calorie count - do you?

Thanks!
Laura

[prairiedream]

My typical day would be something like this:

Morning: Oatmeal with a little ground flax seed and a little brown rice farina mixed in (I do put a little brown sugar in it) and blackstrap molasses. Like I said above I have been experimenting with eating all fruit for breakfast, but I don't do it every day (and may stop soon as it's getting too expensive).

Lunch: a large salad (lemon juice/balsamic vinegar for dressing) and usually a couple of potatoes or sweet potatoes, maybe fruit or bowl of frozen veggies

Dinner: sometimes popcorn, sometimes beans/rice or beans/potato, another large salad and some more frozen veggies with homemade tomato sauce.

That's about it! It's very simplistic but it works great for me.

[southerngirlgoingvegan]

Hi Prairie - Are you losing weight on this regimen? Also, does anyone out there know how to add the weight loss ticker to our profiles? I have found the site but don't know how to upload it.

Thanks so much!

Laura