Lowering glucose without medication and insulin

[Shelley]

I must be the most unusual diabetic on the planet as absolutely nothing Western medicine or even some Eastern disciplines has helped me. I am currently on the MWL program after gaining 35 pounds on the most recent round of insulin (off it now), but am alarmed at the level of my glucose. I am a 61 year old female and regularly walk for exercise. I find that now I'm off the insulin, only a small amount before meals anyway, I find that I'm reacting peculiarly anyway meaning that my glucose level goes up after exercise and even after eating vegetables only. I'm frightened because I am being treated now for retinopathy that has occurred despite having been a "controled diabetic" on insulin for over a year. Does anyone have any ideas for me about how to lower my glucose without drugs? I am also clearly losing weight judging by how my clothes fit despite the fact that the scale hasn't moved a lot.

[Faith in DC]

darn scary. I'd write mcdougall. Also search his website for type II diabetes. he's done a lot on the subject.

[Shelley]

I think I've read pretty much everything and, after doing John's 10 day MWL program and his refining the program for me personally, I still have no answers. It seems as if I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I also eat no fruit or bread except for very occasional deviations. I will stick with the plan and hope that the eventual weightloss and loss of fat, which is definitely happening, might eventually level out my glucose. With this discussion board, I was hoping to find someone else somewhat in my predicament and hear their story.

[veggiecat]

www.pcrm.org Same dietary guidlines,but more specific support.Weekly video classes,also.

[oyvey]

Hi Shelley,
The only other thing I would recommend is to get in touch with Jeff.
You could post a message under his thread or pm him.

Of course you may have already done this!

I hope things get better for you.
Cyndi

[Shelley]

Hi Cyndi, thanks for the wishes and the reply, but who's Jeff?
Shelley

[Buffy]

...but who's Jeff?

Hi Shelley

Jeff is Jeff Novick, a dietitian who works with Dr McDougall. Jeff has his own area of the McDougall discussion board, which you can find on the main discussion board page. Here's the direct link to Jeff's forum:

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=22

Buffy

[oyvey]

Hi Shelley,
Jeff is the dietician who works with Dr. McDougall. I met him at the 10 day live in program, and he has a wealth of knowledge. He has a thread on this discussion board, and I hope that you can find great information there.
You could also post this same question on his thread, if you like.

He also has a web site jeffnovick.com if you want to check it out. Lots of good information on a wide variety of food topics.

He really makes concepts understandable, and also provides scientific information to back up his opinions.
My hope is that he will have some insight to help you. Good luck with your journey, and let me know how I can help.
Cyndi

[slugmom]

Wait, how much is it going up? Maybe you're overly concerned that it should stay more level than "normal" really is??

I have been reading Dr. Neal Barnard's book on diabetes, and he talks about how it SHOULD go up right after eating -- it just shouldn't STAY up.

Are your fasting levels and 2-hours-after-eating levels normal?

How high is it going after eating?

[Shelley]

Hi Kim,
No, my fasting levels are still pretty high, around 250 which John says is ok. But two hours after eating carbs or even just celery and salsa (!), in fact hours and hours after, I can be much above that, well into the low three hundreds. This also happens after walks. It was only when I was on insulin that my body seemed to react more in a normal way glucose-wise, but there were terrible side effects as well, so I stopped. Even being "controled" on insulin for over a year didn't keep me from getting retinopathy as well as adding 35 pounds and more. I had grown out of all but the stretchiest pants and my winter coats!
Nevertheless, with all the terrible things that have happened to me with oral meds, singly or in combination, and all the different insulins I've been on, I've decided to continue to be lowfat vegan without medication of any sort and just hopefully continue to lose more weight and not worry about the high glucose.
By the way, Barnard's book certainly didn't reverse MY diabetes!
Shelley

[Clary]

Hi Kim,
No, my fasting levels are still pretty high, around 250 which John says is ok.

Hi Shelley--
Being diagnosed as pre-diabetic myself in the past, I am interested to know more about your situation.

When you refer here to "John", will you clarify for me, please. Am I understanding correctly that you are saying that Dr. John McDougall indicated that your fasting glucose reading of 250 is "ok"? If you do mean Dr. McDougall, will you please share a little more about why he says 250 is an "ok" number for a fasting blood sugar? Is it because of your particular condition and/or situation, or.........?

When do you measure your "fasting" blood sugar? Do you take your fasting measure upon arising and before eating/drinking anything, and after at least 8 hrs. without eating, or at some other designated time?

Do you drink coffee?

If you post a few days of your meals, and snacks and beverages--everything you eat and drink, that is helpful to those who want to respond to your post, also. You might it helpful to you and others who want to offer support to post your meals and exercise at the Roberta's Corner Forum here on the Board.

About your walking? How often do you walk for exercise, and for how long or how far each time?

I see you became a member of the Discussion Board only a few days ago. How long have you actually been following one of Dr. McDougall's programs?

How long ago did you complete Dr. McDougall's 10 Day MWL programs? Did you attend one of Dr. McDougall's Ten Day live in programs in California, at which you followed the MWL subset, or did you complete 10 days of MWL on your own, at home?

Knowing some of this information might help others to be able to offer more detailed opinions or suggestions.

Jeff Novick has given excellent information on this subject and how to best adjust the MWL for diabetic improvement, but unfortunately, I don't think the information and threads were ever sorted out and moved to his "Hot Topics" list under the title of "Diabetes" or something identifiable to the subject, and for me, well...I need to be on vacation to have enough time to search out something on the board!

Thanks, and very best to you as you seek your answers to return yourself to the promises of this program of which Dr. McDougall includes these goals to work toward: Restore Health and Appearance, Look Great, Live Healthy, Feel Well, Solve Serious Health Problems, Stop Medications, Satisfy Hunger, Eat Delicious Food, Save Money, Achieve Permanent Change, and develop a McDougall Health Program that Is Easy to Understand and can be Followed for a Lifetime.

He believes "Big Changes get BIG Results."

As one of my children likes to say, "Ain't That Great!!"

--and some of the other best advice I ever received about how to follow this program is:
1. START
2. CONTINUE

Welcome to the board, Shelley.

--Clary

[Shelley]

Hi,
I see we are online at the same time. I am currently in Holland and could chat more directly with you via google mail or skype. If you want to do this--might be more expedient--go to [email protected] and I will give you details.
Meanwhile, yes, John refers to John McDougall. Did the 10 day even in Santa Rosa a year ago August and have had online dialog with him ever since, most recently a couple of days ago.
Shelley

[Clary]

Hi,
I see we are online at the same time. I am currently in Holland and could chat more directly with you via google mail or skype. If you want to do this--might be more expedient--go to [email protected] and I will give you details.
Meanwhile, yes, John refers to John McDougall. Did the 10 day even in Santa Rosa a year ago August and have had online dialog with him ever since, most recently a couple of days ago.
Shelley

I'm not sure if this post (above) was meant for me or another person, but for myself--No, I don't care to get involved in private discussions about personal health matters that can't be discussed on the board. I thought from the questions and comments in your posts you were asking for input from others here of the board.

I wish you the best.
Clary

[Shelley]

Hey Clary,
Yes, I am looking for people who have had success lowering their glucose levels without medications, since I especially have been unsuccessful in doing that with diets and exercise alone.
However, you responded with so many questions that I thought it would be easier to talk back and forth outside the discussion board, but no problem if you are not interested.
Best of luck,
Shelley

[Shelley]

Hello,
My offer of discussion outside the board was meant for Kim, not Clary.
Shelley