joint pain

[Mayflowers]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone had the same problem. When ever I would go too low fat, my joint pain and my arthritis would flare up..wondering what I'm doing wrong. I'm leery of starting the mwl because of this problem.

[ElaineVigneault]

I don't have this problem myself but I've heard others complain about it and I promised I'd look into it. For some people with arthritis, the thought of eliminating added oil is very scary. To them, a life without oil seems like it's just pure pain.

I am curious what others say about this issue.

[Mayflowers]

No, it's not the "thought"of it..It's an actual fact. I cut my fat way down and within a few days..suddenly my joints start hurting and my arthritis flares.

[f1jim]

We have had people (Star McDougallers) that had the opposite experience. When they add oils or fat their joints rebel!! I am wondering if there is something else going on with your issue. Perhaps, when you make changes to your diet to eliminate oils, you start to consume some other substance that may be causing your joints to flare up. Also, the myth about oil being good for lubricating joints has been around a long time. I don't mean this in a mean spirited way, but the power of placebo is real. Believing strongly that oils lubricate your joints can have an effect.
f1jim

[Mayflowers]

Sure, I know what you mean. It's not placebo because I wouldn't even think about the fat in the diet, when I tried to lower it the last time and suddenly I'd be having pain and I couldn't remember why I'm having pain and then after a day or two I remember that I cut my fats out.

I've used olive oil to stop a pain flare up, and it's proven to have anti inflammatory ingredients in it.. Also I wonder if it's an immune disorder (I'm otherwise healthy) that's involved.

[f1jim]

Sounds like you are pretty convinced so I am not sure anyone here can be of much help. As far as olive oils anti-inflammation properties it's pretty well proven that they don't extend to arteries!! I'd look at some kind of allergen such as dairy or wheat, but could be a lot of things. MWL or an elimination diet would be helpful in isolating the problem.
Good Luck
Jim

[SactoBob]

Looking at your history of posts, it appears that you eat pretty much vegetarian, but that you have definitely never tried real adherence to the diet explained here.

I could suggest a possible alternate explanation for your symptoms. Check out Doug Lisle's "Pleasure Trap" video which you can view at the Veg. Soc. of Hawaii website. It could be that these pains you experience are transition symptoms every time you try to withdraw from the amounts of animal products and oils that you still consume.

In my case, I had some pretty bad flu-like symptoms when I made the change. If I had not seen Doug Lisle's presentation, I would have been sure that this was not a good thing. As he explains, your body screams at you that you are doing the wrong thing, even though you know intellectually that it is the right thing.

I think that this is a more likely explanation than that you are some rare individual who can't follow Dr. McDougall's recommendations.

If you were so inclined, one way to test this would be with a fast (perhaps should be medically supervised - ask Jeff Novick about it if you are interested.) If you got the same joint pains from a fast, that would suggest to me that it is the withdrawal from the oils and animal products that is responsible for the symptoms. Those symptoms gradually diminish typically over the next 30-90 days, and then you feel better than ever.

[Mayflowers]

Finally! An adequate answer. Hmm. Withdrawal..I do get withdrawal symptoms from stopping sugar and dairy and also when I went wheat free after awhile. I just never considered that joint pain could be a withdrawal symptom. My other withdrawal symptoms were tightness in my chest and intense cravings, depression and irritability..not joint pain.
Interesting. I do like to think that humans were meant to eat the natural oils present in foods and not have to "add" anything. Thank you for the suggestion. I'll look into it. perhaps if I slowly wean myself...?

[Faith in DC]

It's not a coincidence is it? No fronts coming in? I hurt then.

[Mayflowers]

It's not a coincidence is it? No fronts coming in? I hurt then.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your point..