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[Mober]

New to the forum ... quick history, had double CABG @ 34, found Ornish book and proved to myself that diet affects cholesterol levels, I couldn't believe it. I got McDougal books and really enjoy the recipes. I recently got interested in the mini McDougall diet and tried it for a week (on potatoes) ... I did in fact lose a few pounds and even quit drinking coffee which seemed odd. I hopped on nutritiondata.com to architect my diet around particular foods ... aka "mono meals". I was planning out how much of each type of starch to eat on a daily basis to make sure I hit my calorie target, roughly. In playing around on nutritiondata.com, I noticed that most grains and plants have about the right mix of carbs/fats/proteins ... including a lot of fruits. And on the site you can adjust amount of fruit to see how much it takes to get enough calories, which is a lot, but its doable and you even get enough fiber etc. So ... I searched around a bit and got a book by Douglas Graham on basically a fruitarian+greens version of Ornish/McDougall. I am perplexed now. There seems to be good argument for eating the most nutrient dense foods you have available to you and raw fruit seems to be the best. I now feel like my craving for noodles is a craving for a lesser food that in fact may now contain some bad stuff due to cooking process. If I have access to fresh raw fruit on a daily basis, why wouldn't I eat that way all the time?

[Daffodil]

Hi and Welcome to the Forum.
I've been where you are nutritionally speaking. I've bought so many books on diet and nutrition I could probably start my own bookstore.
We all have to find what works for us, and if you want to eat just fruit, who am I to tell you no?
I will tell you this though: You will change your mind again and again and probably just come back to McDougalling eventually.
You still seem to be searching and we all have to find what works for us and just do it.
I tried the raw thing and I just really missed my excellent hot soups, lentil loaves and other great things I create. I like raw foods and cooked foods. With the McDougall plan, you have so many choices. With the Fruitarian plan, you just have fruit. Plus those yummy greens. Although fruit is delicious and nutritious, you will get tired of it after awhile and yearn for something more. Good luck whatever you decide. It's your life, live it the way you want.

[Mober]

Thanks! Its probably silly to spend so much time thinking about what if anything probably amounts to little differences. On a scale from good to bad, I should spend my time on staying at the good end maybe instead of quibbling over what is marginally better than the other. But even though I am mostly concerned about heart health and feel fine in that regards any way, once you open your eyes, its hard to shut them! So I now face an intellectual argument every time I go to the store or eat ... I would really like to get these kinds of questions behind me and not reinvent the wheel every time. There's likes and dislikes ... I like trying new fruits and I finally like bananas and lettuce. But, its a bit of a tough fight. For ex over the weekend my kids watched Kung Fu Panda and I found myself thinking about noodles and broth for 3 days. I'd rather not do that! I'd like to get into a not hungry state and intellectually decide what is the best path forward and then I can worry about motivation and what to do when I feel one way or the other and can rely on my unemotional analysis. I read around on a bunch of articles here and elsewhere and it seems like the points boil down to a few, and I wonder how significant and accurate they are.

Downside of grains: Nutrition decreased by cooking and there's a lot of chatter about opiate-like stuff in grains and toxic byproducts of cooking and they don't like soy sauces and vinegars, spices etc that I would add to some dishes.

Counter: The extra genetic capability humans have over other primates would indicate a propensity to eat grains or at least the general ability (but maybe doesn't say we're supposed to). The cultures one can go out and study longevity regarding are/were all grain or starch based - none are predominantly fruit based. More recently medical studies, like Ornish, all use starch as the basis of their diets, not fruits - so there's more quantitative certainty behind the starch based claims.

So frankly after sleeping on it, I am basically convinced I am worrying too much and analytically, I could go either way. Although I do have concerns about the downsides due to the volumes of carbs I consume (I like to run long) and little things add up.

[Burgess]

Downside of grains: ...

There is no necessity to eat grains. I eat no grains whatsoever. I have been following a strict McDougall Program diet for more than three years.

If grains are a worry, do not eat them. Explore the many other possibilities for starch. I eat lots of starch because it is cheap and it stays with me a long time. Eating only fruit would be, for me, like sprinkling sawdust on a bonfire: Makes a pretty display for a few seconds, but there is no staying power.

[Mober]

That's a good point, I lumped potatoes and sweet potatoes in w/ grains. I read the trail on sweet potatoes ... I would be willing to move them across the line!

[Silvafox]

I'm brand new to this but seeing Doug Graham's name got my attention. My experience is you really have to watch your health if you subscribe to the Just Fruits/Greens plan ("Fruits & Shoots" as Doug calls it).

I've not tried McDougall's plan yet...but it appears to be much more manageable...

[Daffodil]

That's a good point, I lumped potatoes and sweet potatoes in w/ grains. I read the trail on sweet potatoes ... I would be willing to move them across the line!

I would not lump potatos and sweet potatos in with grains. They are totally different. And they are both nutritionally complete foods. In fact, while typing this, I have a stronge urge to go cook a few potatos and eat them.
I have no idea why, but for the past 3 days I have been craving cheese really bad. I had the craving so bad today that I became angry at my husband and yelled at him when he did something to annoy me. Terrible I know. I don't know why I keep having these stupid cravings. Last week it was doughnuts, this week cheese. I hope next week it's broccoli.

[Mober]

Thanks for posts. I decided to maintain a raw diet until evening. I still have my blended salad, but then eat a meal, maybe its McDougall or maybe its fruit, I decided not to kick myself over it! It also is more compatible w/ family meal time and frankly I was sitting there last week after making oatmeal for my kids and wondering why I would let my kids eat cooked food but wouldn't eat it myself ... I can guarantee I am way more concerned over their health than mine! At that point it seemed silly to keep thinking so much about this topic.

[Chumly]

For me it depends on the seasons more. My fruit consumption goes up in the warmer weather because I just don't want to eat hot food when it can get so warm in Atlanta. In the colder weather, I prefer more brown rice and potatoes. I'm not certain it makes all that much difference. They are all healthy foods with a high nutrient per calorie density.

Michael