What program should I do!?

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What program should I do!?

Postby zeuxia » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:04 pm

I have currently decided to take on a McDougall program, but have not yet decided which program to start. I ordered the McDougall Program for Women and would like to overall improve my general health, but I need to lose weight as well! I excercise regularly, and just ran my first half-marathon this September! But, I've always had a problem with being overweight no matter how much I lift weights and excercise. So what program would everyone recommend? I was vegan when I was in highschool and remember feeling the best and healthiest I ever have in my life, but in the last 6 years I have gone away from that and gained back everything I lost and now i'm committed to being vegan again! My body misses it. So, does anybody have any suggestions or ideas for me? Anything would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Welcome to the board...

Postby Sunny » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:59 am

Nice to have you here. :-D
I always tell everyone that my favorite book to start is the 12-Days to Dynamic Health, it is full of great information. It tells the story of how Dr. McDougall started eating this way, the changes in people from one generation to another. The 12-day program has more refined carbs then the MWL (Maximum weight loss) book. If you want to lose faster it is also starch based with complex carbs. All of Dr.McDougall's books are great and this discussion board will help you with any questions you have. :-D
It sounds like you have a great base as a runner, you should check out
Olympic athelete Carl Lewis' story, he McDougall's. :-D
http://www.vegsource.com/articles/lewis_intro.htm
All the Best,
Sunny
MWL 99.9% 12 Day .1 % Always McDougall
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Welcome Zeuxia !!

Postby Recipe Junkie » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:27 am

Welcome !! This is my first week on the program also. I've met several others that are new also.
This message board has kept me going. There are recipe's and great meal ideas and lots of support here.
The regular McDougall program is the one I've started on. It is such a switch from my regular diet that after I make the changes to vegan and get to know how to cook this way then I might try the MWL program. I've already had some fluid shifts or weight loss and that's encouraging.
I wish you great success and look forward to hearing some good reports. It helps to know others are out there changing also. :-)
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Thank you for your encouragement!

Postby zeuxia » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:02 am

THanks for the fast reply, it's good to know there is a support base out there for vegan dieters! The Carl Lewis story was very beneficial as well. I have found numerous other boards for vegan atheletes, and now I know this is very possible to accomplish! I may buy the 12-day program and see how that works out for me.

Thanks again!
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Postby Lin » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:56 am

Hi zeuxia,
Welcome to McDougalling. :-D
I agree with what Sunny wrote. It's usually best to start the regular program first and then if you have trouble losing the last bit of weight, you can switch to MWL. Many of us here swith back and forth between the 2 programs. Some of us have to do MWL to lose any weight at all (I fall in that category). However, I still eat some regular program foods like whole grain bread, on the weekend.

Welcome to Recipe Junkie too!! :-D


Happy McDougalling!!

:mrgreen:
Lin

Let all that you do be done in love.
(1 Cor. 16: 14)
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Postby zeuxia » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:49 pm

Thanks! So, is the Mcdougall program for women considered the regular program? I just ordered it, so I have no idea what's inside!

Thanks again.
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Postby Lin » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:24 pm

zeuxia wrote:Thanks! So, is the Mcdougall program for women considered the regular program? I just ordered it, so I have no idea what's inside!



The McDougall Program- 12 Days to Dynamic Health, is the regular program and The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss is of course MWL.
The McDougall Program for Women, discusses things like how to have a healthy pregnancy and delivery, how to feed your kids healthy, how to prevent breast and other cancers, info about menopause and HRT, osteoporosis, heart disease, etc. It's a wonderful book. Dr. McDougall talks about both programs in this book and it also has recipes in the back.
The first book I mentioned above is really the one that describes the regular program in its entirety. All of the McDougall books are well worth having. I've collected them all except the 2 older cookbooks (vols. 1 & 2). I refer to them all of the time.

Amazon.com often has used McDougall books really cheap. Sometimes it actually costs more to have the book shipped than it does for the book itself. I think I paid about $6 for the regular 12 Days book and about $4 of that was for the shipping!! It's still way cheaper than paying $15 - $16 for it in the bookstore.

Hope this helps. :-D
Lin

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Postby Sandie » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:25 am

Lin wrote:All of the McDougall books are well worth having. I've collected them all except the 2 older cookbooks (vols. 1 & 2). I refer to them all of the time.
Amazon.com often has used McDougall books really cheap. Sometimes it actually costs more to have the book shipped than it does for the book itself. I think I paid about $6 for the regular 12 Days book and about $4 of that was for the shipping!! It's still way cheaper than paying $15 - $16 for it in the bookstore.
Hope this helps. :-D


Several of the books (including the cookbooks, vols. 1 & 2) are available in ebook format through Dr. McDougall's online store:

http://drmcdougall.com/store_ebooks.html

I have all of Dr. & Mary McDougall's books (some I even have multiple copies of because I give so many away) as well as two set of all the DVD/Videos (I've even ordered the newest one). I'm considering getting the ebook form of the books so that I've got the recipes on my computer. :)
Have a great day!!
Sandie

http://www.geocities.com/sandieb101/Menu2.html

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Postby Sher » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:32 pm

Sandie wrote:I'm considering getting the ebook form of the books so that I've got the recipes on my computer. :)

That is just an AWESOME idea! I didn't realize they were in that format.

zeuxia, you can also try http://www.half.com . I can't even begin to tell you how many books I have bought through them. :oops: If I have more than one book, I try to find one dealer who has several; then the shipping is a bit less.

I SO want some of the DVDs. There was a special on them last year at Christmas, and I meant to take advantage of it. I traveled out of state for the holidays, didn't have as much computer access as I *thought* I would, & the offer was over before I could get back to my home computer to order. :tear:

Sher
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Re: Which program to follow (Long)

Postby John of Dalkey » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:12 pm

Hi again zeuxia,

There are a number of things to consider.

1. It takes time to get used to the recipes and cooking them. It takes time to get organized to do the shopping and for example research sauces with low fat (Trader Joe's here in California is good). (See 9 below).

2. It takes time to get used to no longer eating meat, milk, cheese, oils. Starting gradually and improving compliance worked for me, with the reservations below. Getting used to the food and to the shopping are much easier when they have become habits.

3. You'll see much bigger weight loss much faster with the Maximum Weight Loss diet, if your experience is similar to mine (which it is unlikely to be - me forties, male - you not).

4. Had I known that I could loose 9lbs a month by following the MWL version immediately versus the ordinary and losing 10,1,6,+1,0,2,6,4,2,3 lbs / month I would certainly have chosen MWL. My progress was, I feel, too slow. But that's the past. The results so far are great - faster would have been nice but success is even nicer.

5. The MWL book has a chapter on why losing weight is harder for women - designed to gain 9lbs plus and carry it for nine months even in famines on the African veldt etc etc. A miracle of adaptation but a nuisance for losing weight on the (sub)urban veldt today.

Given that this biological quirk exists to preserve the species, it won't be changing soon enough to help any woman here. For that reason, were I female, I might decide to try the more restrictive MWL version given the slower expected weight loss without it. It would be worth reading that chapter before you make your decision. Or after. You can of course change that decision as you go, or as you learn more and /or have more experience of one or both diet versions.

You might also choose MWL if you knew that you would not be more likely to become bored, tired, or fed up and give up the whole enterprise. The argument against is that "slow and sure wins the race."

Iron-willed and / or medical gun to the head? That would help your decision too.

6. McDougall books - find as many as possible in a library. You can buy them when you are sure which you want to own, or which of the recipes you want in front of you to cook.

7. Books - buy the lot as bargains.
You can get great deals with the books by buying them online at Amazon or abebooks. Look for very good condition hardbacks with no marks, no tears, no writing, no dedications if you will use them everyday. Some are new. With luck most will be as new. Cost is mostly $0.01 to $5 plus $4 shipping each. A tremendous deal.

After finding and reading some of the books in the library, at the start, I felt it was worth buying the lot including the recipe books (some at $0.01) times three sets ... One for a friend. Today, a year later, I know it was an excellent choice.

I wouldn't have seen McDougall's Medicine otherwise and been able to forward copied pages to two women who needed them pronto. (One of whom seems to have paid not a blind bit of notice to the information therein but that is how it goes. Who knows what she will decide in six months or six years from now).

8. McDougall's Medicine - a Challenging Second Opinion is up there with Isadore Rosenfeld's The Best Treatment.

Anne Lander's recommended The Best Treatment - "Buy two copies. One for you. One for your best friend." I would put both on a bookshelf and forget about them until the fateful day when they are needed; then you will be very glad that they are there.

Mind you, if you are studying nursing you will probably have to bite your tongue frequently if you believe what you read. As did Dr. McDougall according to his description of his time at med school on an internist residency, in The McDougall Program. P. 22.

9. I say 'research' low fat sauces because it was not enough to find sauces with low or no fat on the labels. That alone is not straightforward. McDougall warns that up to .5gm of saturated fat per serving (the 'avoid' kind) can be labelled as zero saturated fat AND zero fat overall. Wonderful. Also, that sugar can be hidden under five or more names to disguise its presence. It is too - I found the evidence on some labels.

But my difficulty was in searching for no MSG in chinese sauces. It was very tricky. I checked the label, bought the goods and then sufferred the side effects of MSG induced arrythmia. Sorry but I'm trying to cut down. I would not mind quite so much had I not returned one jar and bought the "No MSG Added" version, with predictable consequences - the same thing again. So Amoy and Lee Kum Kee brands are definitely out. O-U-T. Annoyed? I'm not annoyed. I'm mad as HELL - I just love feeling that I'm taking the risk of dieing of stupidity.

That was when google provided the enlightenment.
One site explained that labels with "No MSG" but contents including Disodium 5' - Inosinate and Disodium 5' - Guanylate indicate hidden MSG because they are expensive food taste enhancers that require natural MSG to be already present in the food in order to do their work. Ho Hum - another cunning misdirection in labelling.

In the end Trader Joe's was good and Whole Foods had Kikkoman which is great, if pricey.

Hence the term 'research' - not an exaggeration. Really!

Hope this helps.

You will love the food but you will really love the results. :-)
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Postby zeuxia » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:47 pm

thanks for the help! You gave me some really good pointers. I actually order the MWL version through Amazon, and the company that is distributing it said they shipped it on 11/07/06, but I have not received it. I'm very frusterated about that, since I want to start this as soon as possible! Any pointers on how to start MWL, without receiving the book!? Or should I just be patient? :-)

Thanks!
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Postby Sher » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:58 pm

zeuxia wrote:Any pointers on how to start MWL?

While you are waiting on Amazon to deliver, here is a cheat sheet:

The Twelve-Day Diet & McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss Guidelines

Sher
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Postby zeuxia » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:16 pm

Thank you for that cheat sheet! I will definitely print that out and put it on my fridge. It almost seems too easy!
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Postby DK » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:55 pm

For a starting point more detailed than the cheat sheet, check out the Free Program on drmcdougall.com:
http://drmcdougall.com/free_1.html
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Or should I be patient - Contrarian answer

Postby John of Dalkey » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:39 am

The others have told you where to find the online info to start. So let me suggest the alternative of taking it slow. You are not going to suddenly change your mind and give up on the whole idea I hope.

You are going to read MWL. It has a suggested list of staples to buy. P. 173. It covers four pages - seasonings, herbs and spices, general shopping and fresh vegetables. Couldn't find it explicitly listed in the online link. Makes it much easier to have (almost) all the stuff in your place when you pick up one of the recipe books . Or your own list after some practise and finding a style of eating that a) you like and b) satisfies the diet requirements.

As someone who cooks only to live I like Mary McDougall's suggestion to cook large quantities and freeze or refrigerate .

Someone on this board wrote a very detailed answer to the question "what one trick do you use ot keep doing McDougall and / or MWL" Can't find it now. The excellent reply included baking eight potatos, making soup, boiling rice and cooking up vegetables. It would be very useful to find it. Scanning it quickly I felt that I did most of them but now I remember there were ten plus items. I was doing perhaps four. Or six. Oh well.

With that lot in the fridge there is always something healthy to eat right now.
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