After my first week

[good_smurf]

Hi everyone!

I'm 27 ys old, measure about 6ft and weigh 155 lbs. I started following the McDougall 12-day program after watching some of Dr. McDougall's videos, which I found to be very convincing. On the whole it's been good - I feel hungry only at meal time and somewhat more alert during the day.

On the downside, I've lost my appetite. So for instance, the soups are enough to fill me, so that I often never get to the main dinner course and instead save it up as lunch for the next day. Are the soups a necessary part of the diet? Also, how does one ensure that one's getting all the necessary nutrition one needs? I guess the foods in the 12-day plan are designed to meet that requirement, but what about after this period?

The other big obstacle here is going to be how to deal with lunch meetings in restaurants and meals out with friends. Vegan wouldn't be too hard to find at most places, but fat-free vegan seems like a hard bet. My take on this is that you have to relax the fat-free and sometimes dairy requirement from time to time.

Finally, is there anybody out there who does strength training to build muscle mass, and have they found the fact of eating a low-protein diet to make a difference in the results?

Jai

[DianeR]

I don't think that soups are necessary. They are more important for those trying to control their appetite. The important thing is to eat the right types of food. You don't have to eat the specific things listed in the book.

As long as you eat a variety of starches, legumes, veggies & fruits, getting your nutrients isn't a problem.

Fat-free vegan at restaurants can be tough. You can always try for rice, baked potatoes, steamed veggies, salad bars, etc. I don't worry about a little fat when I eat out because I don't need to lose weight and I don't eat out that much. I do try to avoid dairy, though, because I think it may actually be worse for me than meat. If I had to choose, I would go with fish rather than dairy.

What I've heard is that the protein requirements of those who work out vigorously is maybe 10% more than usual. But the actual requirements established by study are 15 grams for women and 20 grams for men. The RDAs for protein are roughly 3 times that. Getting higher than that gets one at risk for kidney problems and bone loss. (The average US intake is about 110 grams.) I've heard that the most common cause of death among bodybuilders is kidney failure.

If you add up the protein one gets in a typical McDougall day, sufficient protein isn't a problem.

I once went looking for any support for the proposition that eating more protein leads to higher muscle growth. But I couldn't find it anywhere. Actually, it looks like studies show that plant eaters do better athletically than meat eaters. The whole protein thing seems to be magical thinking. If eating protein gives you muscle, why do Americans look like they do?

Besides even if the excess protein accelerates the muscle growth process (which I am not convinced makes sense physiologically) it is NOT a healthy way to eat.

I'm following a pretty rigorous weighttraining regimen these days and I've added muscle -- eating low protein AND as a post-menopausal woman. I used to hang out on a discussion board for this program, which comes with recommendations for extreme amounts of protein (which they will gladly sell to you ). So many of the people had problems getting through the workouts, felt tired, found the need for the bars and the recovery drink, blah, blah, blah. I just add my good carbs, veggie & fruits and do just fine. I don't find myself ever bonking in the middle of a workout, feeling fatigued, or getting injured like the others. (Well, I did sprain my ankle, but that was walking down the street )

There are vegan athletes out there who do just fine. Here is a web site of a bodybuilder; the bottom of the page should interest you:
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

The key to adding muscle is to do the weight work and eat enough calories. If you find you aren't eating enough, you could try adding in more high fat plant foods. I was actually underweight and Dr. McDougall suggested this to me.

Your body is still adjusting to your new diet, though. If you are eating more fiber than before it could affect your appetite. I think it best to follow your body's signals. Eat when you are hungry, stop eating when you are no longer hungry. Don't get all committed to a sample list of meals. Those are just there to give people ideas. I believe it was something Dr. McDougall's publisher thought would be useful.

[good_smurf]

Hi Diane,

Thank you very much for this very informative message, and for taking the time to write it. I feel much more comfortable with the diet now, having tried out several recipes from the McDougall quick 'n easy cookbook, and settled on some that I like a lot. I've also found some healthy stuff in the vicinity of where I work - california rolls and vegetarian maki in japanese restaurants are a staple, along with salads of various kinds.

I'll take your advise about the protein intake. My protein intake has varied quite a bit over the past 2 ys or so, between eating about 50g to about thrice that amount with supplements. I didn't feel a noticable boost in building muscle mass during the high-protein periods. Let's see how things go this way. I'll let you know how it turns out, so you have another point of reference:) Thanks for the link to that website as well.

Jai

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There are vegan athletes out there who do just fine. Here is a web site of a bodybuilder; the bottom of the page should interest you:
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

The key to adding muscle is to do the weight work and eat enough calories. If you find you aren't eating enough, you could try adding in more high fat plant foods. I was actually underweight and Dr. McDougall suggested this to me.

Your body is still adjusting to your new diet, though. If you are eating more fiber than before it could affect your appetite. I think it best to follow your body's signals. Eat when you are hungry, stop eating when you are no longer hungry. Don't get all committed to a sample list of meals. Those are just there to give people ideas. I believe it was something Dr. McDougall's publisher thought would be useful.[/color][/quote]