How to Fuel Endurance

[vgpedlr]

Train for it!

Fitness comes first in this case, not fueling. Building a big aerobic engine that can resist fatigue over the course of whatever you're trying to accomplish is the most important thing, whether a hike, ski, run, bike ride, or whatever.

If you haven't trained for it progressively, shoving down more calories won't make up for it.

Case in point, Sat. I raced an 8 hr MTB race in Norcal. I rode four laps of a technical course that almost never let me have a second to take in fluids or calories. It was hot and humid, so virtually all refueling happened between laps.

What propelled me for hours? Four onigiri and one bottle of sports drink. Maybe 800 calories all together. Plus I had a breakfast of two large homemade rice cakes a little too close to the start, so my gut was grumpy for the second half of lap 1.

The sports nutrition industry has us believing that we need to consume x amount of calories, y amount of water, z amount of electrolytes at precise intervals to avoid complete catastrophic collapse.

Wrong.

Train your fitness and efficiency, making your body great at using stored fat as fuel and managing its resources, so you have a great day.

[sharonbikes]

Couldn't agree more. Congrats!!

[Chris_B]

I think you might be a bit biased with your primary sport being biking, which allows rests while going downhill and a mechanical advantage going uphill. Mine is running so I have a different perspective.

I agree that one will not be able to outrun their training solely based on fueling but fueling is an important aspect in performance.
Last weekend I ran a 30 mile training run with 4,000 vert fueling with 200-300 calories per hour. Yesterday I ran an unfueled 14 mile run with 2,100 of vert. I felt worse at 12 miles yesterday than 20 on Sunday. I did an 8 hour race a month ago in true heat and humidity (Florida in the middle of the day) and I would not have been able to finish the number of laps without Tailwind and boiled potatoes and salt throughout those 8 hours, especially since I ended up running 12 miles longer than my longest training run up to that point this year (I was still doing ski-mo training the week of the race thanks to our cold and snowy spring in CO)

I also believe that fueling trains your body to use those calories in races and you can experiment to see what works.

I believe in both fueled and unfueled training sessions but I disagree that there is some conspiracy to make us eat more calories. There is plenty of science around taking in fuel and the vast majority of elite endurance athletes take in the
"recommended" amount of calories during races.

[petero]

fueling is an important aspect in performance.
Last weekend I ran a 30 mile training run with 4,000 vert fueling with 200-300 calories per hour. Yesterday I ran an unfueled 14 mile run with 2,100 of vert. I felt worse at 12 miles yesterday than 20 on Sunday.

I believe in both fueled and unfueled training sessions but I disagree that there is some conspiracy to make us eat more calories. There is plenty of science around taking in fuel and the vast majority of elite endurance athletes take in the
"recommended" amount of calories during races.

I just did my first two 30-mile days (with not much running, but hey it's my "Couch to 50k" plan and I'm carrying a pack). I've been eating a mix of raisins, craisins, and sweetened dried mango, an ISO-standard Mouthful, at 1/2 hour intervals, but I'm going to try adding some maltodextrin into the mix. The only other thing I consume is water.

Anyway, I replace at least 1/2 and maybe up to 2/3 of the calories I burn, according to Garmin, during the event. If I don't, I get hungry, slow, and mentally and physically fatigued. I can't imagine running or hiking over 30 miles and eating less than I do. The way I see it, a bigger engine burns more fuel, not less. I mean, yeah, you'll probably store more glycogen, but it can't last forever. And the faster I go, the bigger proportion of sugar I'll burn compared to fat, so I might have to eat more, not less.

My menu for my recent 107 mile slow-pack of an AT section is here. There was a back-to-back 25/27 and a moderately-difficult 34 mile grand finale with 8000 ft of gain. Impossible (well, very difficult) without food during the event, evening recovery, and the smooth energy of some morning maltodextrin. That was probably at the limit for 4100 calories a day, too--there's a big difference in doing a discrete one-day event coming from a tanked-up state, and depleting yourself for several days in a row.

(If it's 10 miles or 2 hrs, I don't eat, I just drink water.)

[petero]

Yeah, hunger dogged me all day yesterday. I've been running a bigger percentage of my training, so I shaved over an hour from a 28 mile, 7600' loop hike, but I felt hunger for sure. If I'm training, it's true that technically I'm not in shape to do what I did, but the distance wasn't extraordinary for me, only the average speed was increased. (I tried my best, but it was just too insanely rocky to be a fast course.)

It took me roughly 9.4 hrs and Garmin says I burned 2800, so with a BMR of 100 kcal/hr I was down 3700. (My pack weight would have been less than 9.5 lbs at all times, so probably not too significant in increasing burn.)

I ate: 1500 C of dried fruit, 3 x 90 C hammer gels on a long uphill, and 4 fig newtons (200 C) = 1970 C. That means I replaced 53% of my loss. My stomach took it well even though I forgot my morning famotidine. I think that maybe more food could have helped, especially towards the end when I was starting to feel fatigued.

Kudos to those who can eat less. Maybe some fasted training would be good in addition to just the 2 hrs, although I didn't start eating until an hour into it, and I was already getting hungry by then. (Breakfast was 750 C + a 300 C Arizona energy tea product, but the 750 wasn't particularly high in carbs because I was in a hurry and wasn't thinking.)

[vgpedlr]

I think you might be a bit biased with your primary sport being biking, which allows rests while going downhill and a mechanical advantage going uphill. Mine is running so I have a different perspective.

Of course I'm biased in some ways, but I disagree here. Road riding and mountain biking are very different regarding fueling. True, on a road ride, you can eat and drink as much as you want. The bike leg of an Ironman is sometimes likened to a rolling buffet! Not so on a MTB. Rest going downhill? That would be nuts, and could result in death. My heart rate does not recover much as I'm out of the saddle trying not to crash. It is rare to find a moment when it is safe to take a hand off the bars to fuel or drink. In the race described in my OP, the only practical place was the start/finish. The short fire road climb was smooth enough, but eating while climbing is hard. The rest of the course was technical single track that required 100% concentration not to crash. I do not feel there is a mechanical advantage in climbing on a bike. In my experience, it's usually harder, definitely so on a MTB. If you stop pedaling, you roll backwards and fall. If you stop running, you stand still.

I believe in both fueled and unfueled training sessions but I disagree that there is some conspiracy to make us eat more calories. There is plenty of science around taking in fuel and the vast majority of elite endurance athletes take in the
"recommended" amount of calories during races.

Sounds like some great training runs. Are you training for something specific? Where in CO are you? I'm heading out next week to attend the Leadville training camp.

Let me clarify my OP. It is not directed at elites, or folks like us who are doing ultra events. My fueling strategies are similar to yours. I'm addressing the casual or recreational athlete, or those engaged in moderate exercise for health benefits. The nutrition and fueling practices of elites and ultras does not apply to someone exercising for an hour or so a day. Yet I hear the question often about what they should eat before, during, and after. It's not a conspiracy, it's just business. Making people believe they need all these calories and their products is good for business. For average people it's unnecessary, for folks trying to lose weight, it's counterproductive. I was using my race as an example to show that most people need less than they might think. Train your fitness, not your stomach.

Allen Lim has a great chapter in his Feed Zone Portables book that asks you simply answer the question, "Do you really need to eat that?"

[vgpedlr]

ETA:

Sensible aerobic training improves the body's ability to efficiently manage its fuel supplies, both in the forms of glycogen and fat. The typical person eating a starch based diet will have enough fuel to last a long time. But it takes time to build that fitness, and eating more along the way won't accelerate the fitness gains. That has been my experience. I've tried to eat my way out of holes my fitness dug me into, and it didn't work.

[vgpedlr]

Another long MTB race Sat. 6 1/2 hrs, 4 laps of a high Sierra course. One more lap than last year. No breakfast, no time, raining when trying to kit up. Had a banana right before start, then the usual Hammer SE during the laps. Not many opportunities for fueling on course, a lot of rough stuff, some technical stuff, fast descents, etc. Took a break between laps to chat and eat onigiri. Finished up with a few slices of watermelon and the usual bottle of Vega Recovery drink. The watermelon salad I was planning to build for after in what I thought would be hot, dry weather was not so appealing on a cold day. So I went with an Asian noodle McD cup. Mmmm. One of the advantages of traveling in the VW camper, I've got my kitchen with me! Dinner that night was miso soup and previously prepared congee. The next day, more congee with the uper secret recipe I've been developing with retired TCM practitioner GeoffreyLevens. Can't tell you what's in it, it's proprietary.

Recovery rides for now. I got the flogging I wanted, third weekend in a row with 6+ hr workouts. This weekend I'll find something foolish to do, then recover for the real punishment of the Leadville training camp.

[vgpedlr]

@petero

Are you training for something outrageous and fun? Or just running around in the woods all day for fun?

If it's for a specific event, maybe you can start a thread on it or a journal so we can keep up and cheer you on?

If it's just running around in the woods all day, then what better way to spend a day?

[petero]

@petero

Are you training for something outrageous and fun? Or just running around in the woods all day for fun?

I signed up for the Table Rock Ultras 50k, September 24th. It should be, uh, "fun".

If it's for a specific event, maybe you can start a thread on it or a journal so we can keep up and cheer you on?

I'll think about it, but it might be too early for that. Last fall I was all excited for a trail marathon, but then got very bad ITBS, about a month or so before the event. This time I'd like to keep it low key until I actually finish something. I'm pretty confident though since the cutoff is 10 hours. (edit: besides, I'm not exactly the poster boy for a whole-foods diet right now)

If it's just running around in the woods all day, then what better way to spend a day?

Since my planned thru-hike of the AT fell through this year, I'm going to try to fastpack as much of the trail as I can, from my home base. The next piece is just back-to-back 30s and wouldn't take any running, though.

Anyway, it sounds like you're biking a lot of long races. Best of luck in your training for Leadville. I have to say, I would love to get back to my vehicle and it has a refrigerator and a kitchen.

[Chris_B]

Sounds like some great training runs. Are you training for something specific? Where in CO are you? I'm heading out next week to attend the Leadville training camp.

Training for the Never Summer 100k July 23rd which is in Gould, CO. I live on the other side of the mountains in Steamboat Springs. If you're looking for a good place to bike and acclimate before Leadville we've got some pretty stellar single track, although there's still some pretty big snow patches above 10k, which should mostly be gone in a week or so with all this warm weather we've been enjoying. I'm off to Phoenix for a nighttime 54k race tomorrow night. Should be good training, especially running with a headlamp through the night. The heat training isn't necessary for my goal race but should help mentally toughen me up.

[Risto]

eat onigiri

A small dumb question: if you make your own onigiri, how do you package and carry them? I've started doing longer bike rides, on the road, and sooner or later I need to figure out the on-the-move fueling bit. I'm nowhere near a competitive level - I'm actually riding a relatively slow flat bar bike, but nonetheless, I need to take in some food on a two- or three-hour ride, and I'm not interested in paying for or eating industrially made bars. Rice seems like an obvious choice.

Edit: Happened on this video that shows a chef making rice bars for a professional cycling team. Her kitchen seems to be in one of the trucks of the team. The bars vegan, incidentally.

[vgpedlr]

I just stuff em in my jersey pockets. I've also put them in small ziplock bags in my pockets. The nori will hold it together for a while, but it might be better to package them. There are small so called "bento boxes" that attach to your top tube near the stem to hold food. I just got one in my swag bag at training camp, and I'm going to experiment with it. I couldn't make my rice fuel for camp, and had to rely on GU products, which worked fine, but I missed the taste of umeboshi onigiri.

Million ways you can make rice cakes, I love them. I have recipes on my training table blog, or you can google Allen Lim, Chef Biju and rice cake and see how they developed them for pro teams a few years ago. They have two cookbooks that show lots of options, though not vegan.