Dissolution's Solution

[carollynne]

HI again, I just wanted to stop by and give some encouragement to you. Sounds to me that your wife may be a whiner or a pee-er and a moaner as my dad used to say to my mom back in the day. But hey you and her may survive but at this time, she has such serious mobility issues, that she ought to be thrilled that you are getting healthier in order to take care of her !!
My DH, too, was so resentful of my eating, clearing up my liver and losing wt, etc etc... but just this past weekend he joined me in eating steel cut oats with blueberries. He stopped asking me to go out for breakfast, I just refused to eat that stuff and so he can just go himself!! He is 66, and needs to clear up his liver enz, and for him it is the beer. And he finally is off of it!! Your wife may not live that long. Seriously, and that is a shame, when the proof of what you are doing is staring her right in the face. She has serious mental issues and it is amazing to me that you want to stay with her at all. Sorry is that sounds too harsh! But a wife needs to be her husband's help mate, and a friend, if nothing else!
Good luck in your house, but do not give it up, this is your life and you need to live it for your health!

[Dissolution]

Summer & AlwaysAgnes Thanks for chiming in about the smell factor. I think I'll either move the rice cooker / vegetable steamer closer to the stove's exhaust fan, or to the other room.

carollynne Thanks for your words of encouragement. Glad to hear that your DH is coming around. I still have hope the my wife will. She's half Irish and half Scottish, I used to joke that she was stubborn about being mean. I have no intention of stopping this WOE.

MixedGrains Thanks so much for reminding me where I was. As you have experienced for yourself, this has been an incredible journey so far, and I have no intentions of ever going back to where I was.

Maybe my mistake was not discussing it with her BEFORE I decided to give this "diet" a try. I showed her the book and informed her I was doing it. I knew she would be against it, and I needed to have hope in something, so I decided before she tried to talk me out of it.

I went looking for this picture earlier this evening. I saw it some time ago, on the internet. It was meant to be a joke, I think the title was "Meanwhile in America" or something like that. To me this picture is heart breaking. I see a couple, they obviously love each other. But their health is so bad, they are using the motorized shopping carts. And they are surrounded by the exact "demons" that have made them this way.



This is what my wife wants for our future....

[MixedGrains]

Aw, I can see how that pic was probably intended as humor, but to me it's just sad.

I guess I got too close to being in the motorized shopping brigade myself -- I never actually used one of them carts but I came pretty close a time or two.

[carollynne]

Good Morning, I had to say I love your determination on this WOE. Perhaps that is what your wive resents, but you are doing it up big... getting off some meds and looking healthier! She should want to join you for this life changing journey. It must be so frustrating for you to listen to her attitude and that is sad too!
but congrats to you and go for it!!

[Dissolution]

Waiting for the rain to pass before I go on my walk this morning (maybe I need to buy a raincoat). In other news I hit the 60 pounds lost mark this morning. Glad to see the scale finally moving again. Also I have officially started my attempt at a 24 hour fast. I had a 1.5x serving of oatmeal this morning and a banana.

So a couple of things I was thinking about this morning. I am the first official vegetarian/vegan that I know. Except of course my DIL describes her mother as, "She's vegetarian, but she eats turkey and bison." LOL Really?

The other thing I was thinking about was the health of my family. Here's the quick list.

Wife's side

Father - deceased - heart disease - smoker - not over weight

Mother - deceased - obese - died from complications of colon cancer

Brother - deceased - smoker - alcoholism

Brother - obese - smoker - sleep apnea - hospitalized with congestive heart failure 3 years ago

Sister - Morbidly obese - smoker

Niece - obese

Sister - obese - smoker - sleep apnea - lap band installed, has lost 30 pounds in 1 year - going in for biopsies of "growths" on her back - mental problems

BIL - obese - currently being treated for colon cancer - chronic kidney stones

Niece - obese - smoker

Niece - obese - smoker

Nephew - Type 1 diabetes at age 22 - smoker

My Side

Father - deceased - overweight/obese - brain cancer (NHL) - strokes

Mother - obese - diabetes - Has lost 60 - 80 pounds in the last year with WW

Sister - lost 40 in past year with WW - currently size 4 and happy about it

BIL - overweight - gall bladder issues (gall stones) - scheduled to have it removed this spring - Dr. never discussed dietary options with him - knows that fatty foods cause his gall bladder attacks but continues to eat those foods

The wife and kids

Wife - obese - smoker - untreated diabetes - chronic pain and fatigue - has lost 50 - 70 pounds in the past year by stopping insulin injections - refuses oral diabetes medication - refused to change diet

Son #1 - smoker - exercises

DIL - smoker - obese - possibly altering diet to vegetarian

Son #2 - slightly overweight - following Engine 2 diet (low fat vegan)

Son #3 - smoker - skin condition that keeps him out of the military

Son #4 - smoker - exercises some

#4'sGF - ulcerative colitis - first hospitalized 3 years ago - Doctors say was caused by the combination of taking Prilosec and Acetaminophen - she's a beautiful 20 year old girl and they want to remove her colon (colostomy bag) - they tell her it's completely unrelated to diet.

That's quite a list. Shocking isn't it. Except maybe for my Father's brain cancer, most of these conditions are essentially self inflicted and can be self corrected. I guess this is just a symptom of me becoming "that crazy vegan".

[AlwaysAgnes]

I went looking for this picture earlier this evening. I saw it some time ago, on the internet. It was meant to be a joke, I think the title was "Meanwhile in America" or something like that. To me this picture is heart breaking. I see a couple, they obviously love each other. But their health is so bad, they are using the motorized shopping carts. And they are surrounded by the exact "demons" that have made them this way.



This is what my wife wants for our future....

At least they're in the Hispanic/Asian food aisle. Rice and beans and salsa. Could be worse. Which way's the cookie aisle?

[nicoles]

Wow, Dissolution, once again I am floored by the obstacles in your path and inspired by your commitment to change and health.

I truly hope your wife eventually comes around. Having dealt with similar issues with family and loved ones regarding "other" addictions, I know it is so very hard. But it seems like you at least have a clear perspective on the whole matter.

[carollynne]

Dissolution, Hey again I say congrats on the 60 lbs mark! that is terrific!!
And I must say that the long list of ailments in your family is very very long and so unsettling. Why oh why can they not help themselves to get better. You are going to have to lead by example, and some of them will follow, the others will suffer til they well, are no more!!
But you are doing the right thing, and I am so impressed!
Diabetes and colon cancer are such killers.
And your wife is refusing all treatment, including going vegan? well you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink, as my mom used to say, she had a cliche for every occasion... But this is unreal to me. My oldest son and I are together in this WOE and DH does eat a lot of what we do. But for example tonight, he is truly not feeling well, and I think it was all the cheeses in the Romano Lags. sauce he had on his food at Olive Garden on Sunday!! Ugh!! So naturally tonight he only had some veggies with me and some red potatoes and is already laying down. All that cheese, and that is after he said he would be giving it all up. So his feast day is too much for him is what I call it!
You are one heck of a strong guy to be on your own with this family tree... cool beans!
have a great evening!

[to_our_health]

Wife - obese - smoker - untreated diabetes - chronic pain and fatigue - has lost 50 - 70 pounds in the past year by stopping insulin injections - refuses oral diabetes medication - refused to change diet

This is quite a medical history. It will be even more interesting once you are at goal weight and healthy to see who will look to you as an example to follow, with hope for themselves, versus those who will remain in denial and become sicker. There are so many factors involved, as we know.

About your wife...I am curious about her decision to leave her diabetic condition untreated. What is her thinking on that? She has lost weight from stopping the insulin injections but you have reported she has had extremely high blood sugar levels and felt awful. What is she expecting will happen? Is this suicide? I am so very sorry that she seems stuck in such a fearful place...about you, her health, her life.

My best to you as you do what you must to get healthy yourself...

[Dissolution]

I never did get my walk this morning. The wife and I had a talk instead. I wish I had walked.

She's highly illogical, contradictory, and quite possibly mentally ill. The only glimmer of hope in the whole conversation was when she told me she could find articles and prove to me that a vegan diet was unhealthy. I told her to "Please do".

Here are some of the things she said during our conversation.

- She said, "Your brain needs fat to survive". I told her I eat lots of fat, about 10% of my calories come from fat. She said, "That's not what I mean, you need oil".

- She said, "This doctor you are following is not God". I said, "Doctors". She said, "Well, he's the devil".

- She said, "You'll get my butter away from me when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers". (She REALLY did say this)

- She said, "I would put bad stuff (I think she means butter and meat) in your food if I could".

- She said, "You need a new hobby".

- She said, "The fact that Bill Clinton is on this diet is all the proof I need to know that it's a bunch of liberal BS".

- She said, "You need to learn moderation. You haven't addressed the real problem of your food addiction."

- She said, "Too good to be true?! how can giving up 2/3 of what you are supposed to eat, be too good to be true?" (This was her reaction to me telling her why I did so much research before starting. Because the claims of reversing disease and health benefits really did seem too good to be true.)

- She said, "You will never reverse your heart disease".

[Adrienne]

Wow that is rough!

Isn't one of your sons following a similar diet? Maybe not low-fat but vegan, oil-free? Does she give him a hard time about his diet as well? Has he tried to explain to her the merit behind eating this way? Maybe the information would come across better coming from him rather than you. Just a thought...

Congrats on all your success so far!

[Dissolution]

AlwaysAgnes One could always hope that they were there for the rices, beans and salsa.

nicoles Thank you for your kind words.

carollynne How old is your oldest son? And who got who to start this WOE?

to_our_health That would be my greatest hope be able to convince people through my example that good health is as simple as it really is with this WOE.

Adrienne Yeah, #2 son is following the Engine 2 diet, it's compatible with McDougalling for the most part, maybe a little more fat (some avocado and nuts). He's pretty much avoided the subject around her, but he lives about 40 minutes away, so he's not here that often. She calls him my minion, so pretty much anything he told her, she would just assume it was coming from me.

On a good note, the wife has made a doctor's appointment. She didn't like our last family doctor, so she went online and found a middle aged, over weight female doctor. I think that is a great idea, maybe somebody she can relate to, and vice versa.

I asked her point blank this evening, what she expected to get out of the doctor's appointment, she said she really didn't know. But at least it's a step.

My 24 hour fast seems to be going very well. Need to go to bed now, will talk about it in the morning.

[carollynne]

Hi there and good morning Dissolution!
What a problem you have there and I am praying for you!! She may indeed have some mental issues, but perhaps she is just so afraid of losing you and being hurt too.... She is fighting to keep you under her maniacal control and refuses to see the light! You cannot help her, many would have left by now..... But you ( IMO ) are doing the right thing for your family as the husband, to get healthy so that you can provide for them and take of an ailing wife too. And no doubt she is enjoying the control of the arguments or discussion and will never stop that until her deathbed, where she may surprise you too! She sounds very emotionally abusing to you in order to be in control, gain sympathy for her conditions that she believes nothing can be cured, and very argumentative and has to be the one in charge of everything... many spouses are like that when you change the status quo on them too.
To answer your questions my oldest son is 31, and it was our youngest son, 27, who actually led the way to becoming a McDougaler for me. So Son #3 had a GF in first yr of college who was an Env. Sci type of major and she had become an ethical vegan, and was tiny to begin with, no wt problem, so I was trying to learn to cook for her when she was around, and in the process of that whole thing #1 and #3 sons were going all the research and asking me to cook this way, so I started to read cookbooks, like Veganonmicon and the 30 minute Vegan, and started to make up lentil tacos, lentil sloppy (snobby) Joes, etc, and seitan, and all kinds of bean dishes and of course rice and potatoes. In the beginning it was more of the processed stuff you can buy, like the fakes meats and burgers, and Son #1 loved to make his own burgers and seitan sausages and I remember thinking now wait a minute it is supposed to be cheaper to eat this way! But how I got to McDougalling was actually thru the short clip on line of Clinton's interview with Wolf Blitzen!! search after search led me to this site, where I have read it all !! and for free, love that concept!! I too thought he was a horrid man, back in the day of ML, and the impeachment trial in the senate hearings, but now at least he did something good for the nation...... and is promoting vegan lifestyle. And The China Study too. a great book! has your wife seen Forks over Knives yet? I can mail you a copy .... altho I have mailed a few of my best peeps a copy and I think it is not so worth it to them. You can lead a horse to water........
So anyway, to end my long saga, I have now read so many of the books, like The China Study, Engine 2, and the Halt and Reverse Heart Disease, digestive tune -Up, and many others.... all the lectures on http://www.vsh.org site and they are great ones too. I have immersed myself in all the medical charts and lectures I can get for free, and have bought some too, like the DVds from McD and the one from Essy now available. I too have heart disease, and it runs in my family tree, usually in the form of HBP until it gets to congestive heart failure and or AT fib, and some diabetes too.
One lecture that is for free on this site, is the Starch Solution and that one really convinced me! No kidding, and then there was just no turning back for me.
#1 son who works at a big plant, said the other guys of course make a bit of fun at him, all in good humor, about how he eats, and he packs a lot of stuff in his lunch holder. He has lost some wt, like 25 lbs and has gotten so much more energy, strength, and looks great! If a mom can brag a bit!! He has that vegan glow and so does #3 son too. Both of them have that Vitiligo, that autoimmune disease where you can lose some of your pigmentation and that runs in my family too. For my 2 sons it seems to be pretty much gone, and no new spots either.... they got that as adults too, not children.
I have one brother and a niece who have that same condition.
A sister who has an eyelid condition called flutteritis, that may be autoimmune and also hyperthyroidism too. Another sister with osteoporosis, and the thyroid stuff, on and on it goes......and lots knee problems too. Plus a brother who lost his hair in 7th grade no one ever knew and then it grew back in HS and fell out right before he got married too. So there are things in my family tree too. Lots of heart disease and loss of mobility at the end usually... big surprise there, right?
#2 son, 28, is a meat eater, and well we will see is all I can say. Great shape for now!! always played bball and lifted, and still does! He never did like red meat, ever, but lives his milk on cereal and chicken and Alfredo sauce too. And gummy candies!
So there you have it, the long and the short of it.
I for one love the concept of :
"There is hope at the end of the tunnel"
that me going and becoming totally vegan presents to me. I have never felt better in my life and at 59.... want to keep at this. I plan on being active into my 80s and 90s and that is a rarity in my family tree.
I have changed my kitchen over completely, and DH never tires of announcing to friends or relatives that I never cooked a bean in my life and used to tell him that early on in our marriage. Well that is true, so I crank up the old story that my mom never cooked beans, since my dad hated them except for baked beans now and then. So never really learned how. Until now that is!!
Hey sorry for that long post!! Have a good day I am so thrilled for your good health!! Congrats to you for being the strong and faithful leader in your family!!

[Dissolution]

carollynne Thank you so much for sharing your story with me. What a great Mom you are for getting your feet wet with this WOE to cook for one of your son's GF's. And how fortunate you all are for having discovered it.

My wife would say that you need a new hobby too...lol. It does seem that us "McDougallers" seem to crave knowledge about nutrition. I'm sure part of it is the human need to validate our decision to adopt this WOE. But the other reason so many of us "vegucate" ourselves is because we have been lied to and misinformed for so long, that we have to fill that void of understanding once we discover the truth.

I guess in a way my wife could be considered abusive. However I don't really consider myself abused. I have all the real power. She get's her own paychecks, but they come from my company (I pay her $1500 a month for 3 hours of work). The house is only in my name, the kids are all adults now, and they have stated that if we get divorced that I "get custody". lol I could walk out the door any time I wanted to, pick up a check from a client and start over and never have to look back. So I'll continue to let her have her fits. Sure it'll make me sad and sometimes angry and I'll come here to vent. I'm not sure if it will all come to head at one big event, or just a series of smaller ones. But she's stubborn and resistant to change, but I have knowledge and fortitude on my side and the belief that this WOE can change and save lives. And maybe it's a little arrogant, but I like to think that someone will one day follow my example and save their own life. I found FoK and this WOE on my own, but would have to think that if I had been lead to it by someone, I would be eternally grateful.

So my fast yesterday. It was pretty awesome. I had tons of energy, I seemed more focused. I had hunger pains briefly a couple of times during the day, but they were not the big issue I expected them to be.

The problem with the fast is what do I do about my weigh-in this morning? 2 pounds down. Well, of course it has to do with there being no food in my system. So do I mark it down as weight loss? Hell yeah, scale said 238 I'm posting that! Might mean that I switch to a weekly weigh-in following my fasting day. For now, I think I will continue to fast on Tuesdays.

#4son'sGF if being admitted today into John's Hopkins hospital. She will be there for a week while they do tests and plan on giving her Infliximab (Remicade) for her Ulcerative Colitis. The drug costs $25,000 a year, a week in Johns Hopkins is probably $50,000 - $100,000. I've found this article;
http://www.drmcdougall.com/med_colitis2.html
But my son doesn't want me to push my "extreme" diet onto her. Go figure...

[carollynne]

well your wife is right about one thing, this is a new hobby for me, All of the research to figure out how to cook, and why it is all so much better for us humans, is an endless hobby for myself and oldest son too. thanks for calling me a great mom too! that was my ambition when we got married and wanted to have children. It truly was a mystery to me, all this why go vegan?" but now.... I can say oh yes, I am not turning back.
3 hrs of work for 1500 sounds like a good deal to me! but it really brings the point to me, that money isn't everything in life.. and if you have your health, you are a very wealthy person too!
Hope she does have some success with new doctor too. I had to switch to a vegan doctor, female and now love my appts. The last PCM I had keep admonishing me to stop drinking so much for my liver enz, and I am without a doubt the only non-drinker in my family tree, and I had the observation :"fatty liver suspect" on my liver scans, and still told me stop drinking so much... never addressed any other possibility like fatty foods, fried foods cheeses, etc. wasted a yr of my life back then...
Hey I am happy that your attitude is so cool about your wife!
I will be praying for your sons' girlfriend too in JH, that is a great hospital. My oldest had eye surgery there back in the 8th grade!
Love your successes too
woo-hoo!! 238 sounds wonderful...
have a great day!!