Birdy Takes Flight

[Anna Green]

Hey. You are so right about the meat in the South. I lived in Seattle for 5 years and it's where I first became vegan. It was easier for me there and I maintained it for about 1 1/2 years. I came home and gradually started eating animal again off and on. Lately I've been vegan again and am trying hard to do the McDougall thing.

Anyway, I am happy for you that you are facing the numbers and working on making them better.

[Birdy]

Anna, thanks for your post. It's definitely hard to be vegan anywhere, but thank goodness for this board so we can have a sense of community.

Today, the first day of summer, I'm eating:
Breakfast - coffee with soy creamer & plain toast
Lunch - leftover brown rice with vegies and tofu
Dinner - vegetable burrito
Snacks - fresh fruit

Exercise - 30 to 40 minute walk and maybe a swim for the first time in 6 weeks (due to traveling, surgery, recovery, and the pool being closed for annual maintenance last week).

Wishing you all a great day!

[Birdy]

This morning I'm musing on why this diet is so difficult for me. I know I'm not alone and venture to guess there are quite a few people who visit this board who also have the same challenge. Maybe it's just "hard to teach an old dog new tricks" but I don't think so because a poll on the Lounge shows that the majority of people here who are eating low fat plant based are in their 50s. There's a litany of reasons why this is difficult to do: society, family & friends, habit, self control, mind set. One particular obstacle for me is that I love to cook and enjoy the variety of recipes using all kinds of ingredients, not just low- or non-fat vegan. It's the sense of limitation that is difficult, the sense of having to constantly be vigilant about food choices. It's denial of reality about food choices and health consequences. And, yes, there's also the form of denial that is a little voice saying, "People have been eating meat for 1,000s of years. How can this diet be right?" That's probably the most undermining thought of all, and despite all I've read, listened to and learned about vegan diets, a core part of me just doesn't believe in it. "You won't get your omega-3s, or enough zinc," or "So and so lived to be 90 and they ate meat," or any of the thoughts/beliefs we all are subject to.

Ultimately, for me, the one solid rock in being vegan is compassion for other creatures, especially those raised for food. I have to ask myself whether I want to participate in consuming other creatures or products from other creatures, such as cheese & eggs for example, that involve the misuse and ultimate slaughter of animals. I've learned enough to know that even the best raised animals ("organic free range") are still being used and still being killed in order for us to eat them. They are never free; they are not living wild. They never have a chance because we are preying upon them. Do I want to participate in this? No. Have I participated right up to today? Yes. So why the disconnect? Appetite. Habit. Cultural traditions. Eons of humans eating other creatures in the natural order of things. It's not the predatory aspect even that bothers me - there are predators and prey throughout all of nature. It's the way in which we now obtain our animal food by basically imprisoning them, taking their babies away, manipulating their very bodies, and then killing them in slaughterhouses.

I once crossed paths with a cow whose baby had died in a ravine near my house. This mother was so distraught she'd gotten herself down in the ravine and would not come out. The farmer couldn't get his equipment down in there to get her out either. So she just lay down there crying for her baby and later died herself. I saw this with my own eyes. I've also seen other things first hand with animals where I know they are sentient, as Peter Singer so eloquently speaks and writes about.

It occurs to me that, even though I do want to lose weight and do need to bring down cholesterol, triglycerides, etc. and blood pressure, I am not motivated enough to be vegan for myself, for my own health. Am I motivated enough to be vegan for the sake of the creatures we eat?

The reason the journalling hasn't helped me is because all of us on this board, with the exception of the environmental thread, focus mainly on ourselves - our health, our weight. And that doesn't apparently motivate me deeply enough to change. So I'm going to shift my focus to the creatures themselves as my true motivation for being vegan and see if that doesn't help me make a true and lasting change. If you're still reading, thanks for "listening."

[f1jim]

Hi Birdy
You are now at the crossroads for this diet. We all get there at some point and it's really where you either give it a real long term shot or move on to try something else. For some the ethical implications will drive them forward, but usually not for a long time. If you don't have health or weight issues they will not become strong motivations. This is the time to either push forward and really give this a serious go, or don't waste a lot of energy if you don't see the real merits of it. Honestly, you have to emotionally and intellectually commit or this will not work. The names change here on the forum, but the questions and struggles remain the same. Only a small handful of the participants make this a lifelong pursuit. Those that do are greatly rewarded and the sense of gaining control of your health is enormously powerful. Don't let someones seeming zeal here fool you. Time is what separates those that do from those that talk.
This is not easy. I repeat, this is not easy. It's simple and doesn't require us to use math or complicated structure. But it is not easy. If you stay with this and the months pile on it will get easy. For me it's now like breathing. I don't even give it any thought. It's just what I do. It will come to that for you or anyone else that will put in the time. Those that commit receive their reward. Of course, my suggestion is to hang in there, recommit and go full bore. It's worth all of the trouble and the emotional struggle. It's the biggest bang for your buck healthwise and keeps paying the longer you do it.
But in all seriousness, if you won't make the effort and planning to make it really work don't fight it. It's not worth the emotional scarring to play at this. Put the time and effort into something else valuable you will actually attempt. Don't beat yourself up. Either way don't beat yourself up. If this is the right thing to do....DO IT!!!! If it's not cut your loses and go for something you will be committed to. I hope you stay with this. I believe this is such a powerful and healthy way to nourish yourself it's worth the sacrifice you are sensing. That too won't last long as the benefits become obvious.
Good luck
f1jim

[Birdy]

Hi Jim,
What a great reply. And, of course, you are perfectly right. Time for me to withdraw and give what you wrote some serious thought. All the best,
Kathy

[Loveskale]

That was excellent advice Jim! I too had some difficulties with this diet and I had given up on it a year ago. Ever since then I had regretted it, keeping it back in my mind knowing that good health was within my grasp, if I wanted it. I am vegan but it is hard to cook without oil. However, for me, I had to suffer a lot more before I became willing to try the diet again. That's what happens, I suffer so unneccisarily if I don't follow it. Keeping that in mind, for me, it seems silly not to follow this diet. Wow, I just came upon an epiphany, I'll stop talking about myself now

irdy, I agree with what Jim said, I really hope you do stick with this diet!

[Adele001]

It occurs to me that, even though I do want to lose weight and do need to bring down cholesterol, triglycerides, etc. and blood pressure, I am not motivated enough to be vegan for myself, for my own health. Am I motivated enough to be vegan for the sake of the creatures we eat?

The reason the journalling hasn't helped me is because all of us on this board, with the exception of the environmental thread, focus mainly on ourselves - our health, our weight. And that doesn't apparently motivate me deeply enough to change. So I'm going to shift my focus to the creatures themselves as my true motivation for being vegan and see if that doesn't help me make a true and lasting change. If you're still reading, thanks for "listening."

Thanks for posting this Birdy. It has really got me thinking. I have been wondering the same thing in relation to myself and you have helped me see it clearer.
When I first became vegetarian 15 years ago it wasn't easy for a long time and I did wonder if I could really give up roast chicken forever. Now, I can't imagine ever eating meat again.

At the moment I really can't imagine never eating a pizza again; but after thinking about your post I realise that I need to work really hard for what I want and then there will be a day sometime when my stomach will turn at the thought of that same pizza.


Adele

[landog]

This morning I'm musing on why this diet is so difficult for me.... One particular obstacle for me is that I love to cook and enjoy the variety of recipes using all kinds of ingredients, not just low- or non-fat vegan.

I met an interesting indivdual recently at an "Engine Two Challenge" put on by our local Whole Foods store. Rip and Jane Esselstyn (Rip's sisiter) were involved it, too! (Heck, so were Dr. Esselstyn, Ann Crile Esselstyn and their grandkids!).

Here is her blog: http://recoveringcarnivore.blogspot.com/

While not entirely adherent to McDougall, I get the sense that she is excited about the challenge of 'vegan' cooking. I hope that her enthusiasm will help motivate you to see this way of cooking as a challenge, not as a limitation.

I'm also amazed at the variety of recipes featured here: http://www.thehealthyvegans.com/.

Me - I'm a simple starch and veggie guy, but there are plenty of recipes for practically any type of food here in the McDougall newsletters. The possibilities in your kitchen are endlesss.

Be well,
-dog

[Birdy]

sksamboots wrote on the "thin again in 2010" journal, "I quit setting goals for myself because I found that I never reached them. No matter what I set. I never did and just ended up being upset. I decided, like you, to change the way I see it."

I think this has some bearing on the obstacles I posted about a few days ago. Boxing myself in is how it feels. And , as Jim wrote, "beating myself up" - which is another way of interpreting sksamboots' feeling upset with herself. It's really true that the negative cannot be motivating, at least not for long. Even if you have a heart attack and change your diet because of that negative event, it still seems like it's recovering your health - a positive - that ultimately motivates you to change your diet and lifestyle. Again as Jim wrote, experiencing big successes is what motivates people on this diet. I've been focusing on my failures! So I feel that I'm getting closer to the reason(s) that I've had so much trouble making a change to Dr. McDougall's diet. I've been trying to motivate myself by focusing on being overweight, bad lab results, high blood pressure, etc. All negative and all the wrong reasons. I'm still working on reorienting to positive reasons and will post that (those) when I honestly figure it out.

Thanks very much to Jim, Loveskale, Adele001 (glad my post was helpful to you!), and Landog for your thoughtful and helpful posts! AND thanks sksamboots - I'm gonna "change the way I see it."

[afreespirit]

Powerful and wise post, f1jim. Thanks.

Birdy, wishing the absolute best for you.

[Anna Green]

Hey! What you are saying sounds right to me. I think the positive motivates us more. Feeling good about something propels us forward. Birdy, thanks for your honesty. Also, I don't know about you but for me keeping my journal going even if it's not as consistent as before has helped me not go back to where I was in the beginning. I have maintained my 40 lb loss, am eating vegan almost all of the time and McDougall much of the time. I hope to do better but I am pleased with my success too. Way different than how I used to see things.

Anyway, I just want the best for you and only you can decide what that is. If you want to maintain your journal and tell us your ups and downs, I will read it and be happy that you continue to want to be healthy. If this is not good for you I will be happy that you were here for as long as you have been and hope to hear from you occasionally.

[Birdy]

Wow Anna, a fourty pound weight loss is a transformation for sure. I know you're right about hanging in and I appreciate your support. I woke up this morning thinking that, for today, I want to eat "fat free" McDougall. For today at least. It's like SAD is an addiction (drug free, alcohol free). Fat free for today (I know the diet isn't really fat free as plant foods have 10% fat or so). Maybe that will be my new signature...

I was thinking about the word "vegetarian" and suddenly it seemed odd to me that people who still eat dairy products and eggs are called vegetarians. What kind of vegetable are dairy products and eggs? No wonder Donald Watson coined a new word "vegan" for true vegetarians - the original word was a misnomer!

So those are my thoughts for today. I weigh 156. My waist is 36" and I feel like Tweedley Dee or Dumb. If I lost fourty pounds like you have Anna, I'll weight what I did when I graduated high school! It's possible. Fat free for today.

[sksamboots]

1 day at a time Birdy. That's a good way to go

[Birdy]

Good morning. It's been a week since I last posted and I learned a few more things about why dieting of any kind is so difficult for me. I also journal in an actual notebook, something I've been doing for 40 years, and there I framed the question in a more positive way: "What do I know works for me?" I came up with the following three simple ideas:
1. Exercise daily
2. Eat what I want and trust myself to make sensible food choices (I like vegetables, legumes and whole grains so it's not a big leap for me to eat these instead of SAD foods).
3. Eliminate snacking (I eat essentially a whole 4th meal every afternoon between about 3 p.m. and our actual dinner. Eliminating this one behavior would result in significant weight loss).

I realized that diets don't work for me because I have a strong internal locus of control, to use psychological parlance. This results in me not taking other peoples' advice unless I can internalize it and believe it. I have to trust myself.

Interestingly, a couple of days ago I saw Geneen Roth on Oprah discussing a book she wrote called Women, Food and God. One of the key points Ms. Roth makes is that you need to listen to yourself - listen to what you're feeling so that you dont' use food to "stuff" your feelings down, listen to what your body is hungry for and to when you're actually full. She made exactly the point I came to in my journal which she framed as a question, "Are you saying you can't trust yourself (around food, around your feelings, etc.)?" I haven't read the book or even heard of it before the Oprah show, but it certainly matched exactly what I've been feeling. Anyone else familiar with the show or the book? What do you think?

[janluvs2heel]

Hi Birdy,
I have read it & I highly recommend it. About $16- at Wal Mart. Well worth it. As Oprah said, I have had epiphany after epiphany as I was reading thru the book. The biggest thing for me was realizing I am worth having good stuff come my way, fat or thin. Just because I am fat, doesn't mean I am not worthy or vice versa. I wont go into all of mine as they are personal & will be different for everyone. I have just lent the book to my daughter. I hope she gets a lot out of it as well.

Good luck on your journey. One thing I have learned, we are all different. What works for one does not work for the other. I dont post here very often as I dont like the slapping of hands that some on here feel they have to do. But I do lurk & on occassion I will respond to something. This just caught my eye. One day I will post my journey, until then, I wish you all the best.

Jan