Dissolution's Solution

Share your daily McDougall menus and/or keep a journal describing your personal progress.

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby carollynne » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:01 am

Good Morning to you , Dis! So she had some oatmeal !! That was one thing my DH did recently too. His excuse of why he would do that all the time is that they always had so much oatmeal growing up in Philly.
they all do get very loud, and I need ear plugs, or just go into another room, and they just need to be so special, or think they are, and be heard above all the others.... too many chiefs and no Indians all the time!
Great about teh plant strong, but why aren't you a vegan then, just going by the term starch based? That is my favorite wary of explaining it to any of the pool pals at the gym. There is one lady, whose Dh is a retired cop, and minister too, and his entire family tree has a liver disorder, that has to do with the iron not digesting and it ruin the liver and they all get cirrhosis from it. So she was the one who really understood me when I said, I get plenty of protein from plant sources. So he has been on a very restricted diet of no iron in food, like all meats, and grains too. She always backed me up with the other ladies were aghast about my no animal products luncheons with them. bless her heart she'd chime right in with oh yes you can get all the protein you need from what she eats, just ask my husband's doctor...
Her light day look so high in salt and fat that I am amazed she has not had a heart attack. You had one and it still took a while to change... So I am hoping for the best for your family...
And here I thought you were a writer by trade by the style you write so easily!
Hey, I once told DH that I really wanted him to get healthy with me, and he seemed to just nod like he understood. then he waited a few more months to see if the kick was still there (for me as a plant strong person) and since it is, he has decided to for the no alcohol route first, and says he will do it for 5 yrs, and get a brand new liver... ... he does loves my bean dishes, and last night I had prepared a 15 beans (+) soup, with my own stewed toms, soaked the beans, let them sprout etc! lots of spices, and some b. vinegar.....
and frozen veggies thrown in for good measure.
Personally I would not tell her anymore at all. Let he come to her own conclusions and decide to act on her own. It really did take about a year or more til my DH wants to join me on the journey and gave up asking me to eat at restaurants for huge SAD meals. I am still in a state of shock that he has not had a drink for what almost 3 weeks now? We have a few bottles of wine too, for cooking sauces and one bottle of Ghluwein from Christmas time (at the PX) and he would have polished off all of that by now plus his cases of beer... so I am in shock. I think one day you will be too, with your wifey.
Have a good day!! Hope the loving feeling continues in your house!
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby nomikins » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:09 am

Glad things may have a glimmer of light. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:23 am

nomikins Yes it is just that, a glimmer. She said to me last night, "Can we be young again?. I told her of course. I'm still not sure what exactly she was talking about. For a silly moment I thought maybe she was going to start eating better, but I after I got back from my walk/jog (90% walk, 10% jog) she asked me to get the cheese whiz out of the fridge for her....So I don't know. Maybe I should refuse her requests like that, maybe she is taking that as my "permission" to eat that food.

carollynne So glad to hear about your husband's move towards a healthier lifestyle. And thank you so much for the complement on my writing, I just write what comes into my head and have no aspirations to do it professionally, nor do I think I could.

While I do tend to throw the word "vegan" around, I think to call myself one, is an insult to actual vegans. It is my understanding that most true vegans have some to their decision to eliminate animal products based on ethical/compassionate views. My decision to stop eating animals and their products is mostly for the selfish reason of my good health.

Have I gained more respect for vegans? Oh yeah, very much so. The peer pressure to consume animal products is really quite scary at times. It makes some people mad when you don't eat like they do. In the past it had been my belief that vegans were putting their compassion for animals over that of their own health, and there are probably some vegans that actually feel that way. Does it feel good to know that animals are not suffering and being killed for me to eat? Yes, it does, that's not something I was really expecting.

Now once I have reached my goal weight, and continue this WOE, I will be closer to being a vegan, but make no mistake, it will be for my health. Currently I still use honey on occasion and I have not attempted to avoid leather products.

Maybe I should start using a different term. I think maybe "starchivore" would be the best description. It would probably open people's minds up, cause they already think they know what a vegan is. I've had these conversations.

Person: I tried to be a vegan but I lost too much weight.
Me: What did yo eat?
Person: Mostly salads.

or

Person: I could never be a vegan, I don't like salads.
Me: I rarely eat salads.
Person: ???

What are the other terms we could use?

Starchivore
Plant-Strong
Herbivore
Vegetarian
True Vegetarian
Ultra-Vegan (this is what the wife calls me)

Or here's one I've considered using

Hegan (What is a hegan, you might ask? They are, Pierce claims, “the new face of veganism”: “Men in their 40s and 50s embracing a restrictive lifestyle to look better, rectify a gluttonous past, or cheat death. They are hegans. They are healthy. And they are here to stay.” Hegans aren’t interested in the principles of veganism, or saving their environment, or wearing extravagantly colored vegan tunics — they’re just interested in living longer. (Men quoted in the piece tout veganism’s supposed ability to prevent cancer, diabetes and heart disease.)

So anyways my walk this morning 21ºF outside. Not as long as maybe it should be, but I'm bumping the intensity up. Also still trying to find the best "1 lap" path to take without running into too much traffic. Not that there is a lot up here, but the roads are so narrow that it's best if you don't come across ANY cars.

Distance: 1.45 miles
Moving Time: 19:59
Average Moving Speed: 4.36 mph
Elevation gain: 480 ft

Going to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore today to visit #4'sGF. They still don't know if she has Crohns or UC. They have had to delay giving her the chemo level drug "remicade" because the infection in her intestines is so bad. I linked her some information by Dr. McDougall and she asked her doctors about it, and they told her they didn't know what causes her condition, but that they didn't think it was diet related. I would like to take her a copy of "Dr. McDougall's Digestive Tune-Up". I don't own that book, but I would have no problem buying it for her. Except...To have the appearance of giving medical advise to someone as sick as she is, is probably not good. I'm sure it would greatly anger the wife, and possibly the girl's mother. I'm sure it's just that "crazy hegan" thing, where I think that eating this way is the cure-all for so much of what people suffer from in this country.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby nomikins » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:36 am

I don't like labels; they are too restrictive. I eat a plant based, starch centered diet. There are no politics or belief systems attached.

With regard to your son's GF's condition, I was once in a similar situation. I was diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome and was put on a powerful anti-spasmodic medication, told I would have to take it the rest of my life. I was in my 20s. I was told the cause was unknown. Well, that led me to do research on natural healing, and that is how I found my way to Dr. McDougall. I cured my IBS and have been medication free for close to 20 years now! I'm in my 40s.

Best wishes that you and your wife continue to find middle ground. The only person to change her will be her (which I realize you know).
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:05 am

Dissolution wrote:I made this for dinner tonight, had it over rice, it was awesome.

http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2009/01/red-cabbage-and-peas-with-cumin-and.html


I've made cabbage with peas many times. It's true that it doesn't smell as bad this way as it can when it's cooked longer in soups and such. I use regular green cabbage. (I don't mind red cabbage raw in salads, but cooked red/purple cabbage weirds me out. So do cooked red onions. :lol: ) This cabbage/pea stuff is really simple to make. I usually just start with black mustard seeds. Pop 'em. Add a ton of slivered cabbage (okay, at least half a head), and cook it down a bit. You might need to add a bit of water. When it's wilted down, I add some ground cumin and turmeric, salt and a little black pepper. Last thing I do is stir in frozen peas. Cook until peas thaw and are heated through. I don't like peas overcooked. This is a great side for Indian dals and potato dishes and chapatis, and it's good by itself too. Leftovers are also good. There are many versions of Indian cabbage and peas online, using various spice combos. Some add onions. :nod:

BTW, I understand your hesitancy about watching Earthlings. I had to force myself to watch it. I cried a lot. Ignorance is bliss. No pain; no gain. Earthlings gives SPAM a face. I don't know about other people, but that image really does help keep me from sliding back into old habits when it comes to eating meat. I just don't want to want to go there anymore. Anyway, some folks who might not be persuaded to change their unhealthy diets by reading/watching Dr. McDougall, or by watching Forks over Knives or Fat, Sick, and Nearly dead, might be persuaded by Earthlings. Or not. I dunno. Our society is just so disconnected from our food sources. It's like Chicken McNuggets and bacon and SPAM grow on trees, and the potato has become the evil that shall not be mentioned unless it's anointed with oil and sacrificed to the gods of butter. :lol:

Have a great day!

Now I want some potatoes and cabbage...
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:40 am

Labels are funny things. I don't call myself vegan. I call myself Agnes. :mrgreen: I don't eat animal flesh, but I'll eat honey. The thought of eating flesh just gives me the heebie--jeebies now. Guess I'm okay with bug spit. 8)
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby carollynne » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:28 pm

Hey there Dis, I just wanted to stop by and tel you it is perfectly alright to do this solely to get healthy for yourself!! That is what motivates most of us in the beginning. Who wants to change what we are doing unless if profits thee? My reasons are all about health. I have a nice leather coat that DH bought me for the next funeral. He always wanted me to have one, and now I do! I won't be giving away my leather shoes either.... my feet are hard to fit any day of the yr!!
but hey the good news is that Dh ate my wonderful souped up 15 bean soup with potatoes and farro today.
have a great weekend, and hope that you will be getting your walks in or some exercising at JH too. Hope that girl is going to be ok too!
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:20 am

nomikins I'm not crazy about the labels either, and that's why I have my own set of "diet" rules, but our friends and families will label us. Most of them call me a vegan or an ultra-vegan, which I don't really have a problem with, but I think it fails to communicate what I actually eat. Which is starches, close to 100% of my meals are based around a starch.

AlwaysAgnes I had never considered that cabbage and peas was some sort of standard dish in Indian cuisine. I knew the cumin in the recipe would give it that Indian taste, but thought I had just stumbled upon a "one of a kind" recipe.

If we were talking about a "normal" woman, then yes, "Earthlings" would probably be helpful in getting my wife to change her diet. However, she was raised on a farm. She can tell you about how every spring, when the baby pigs were born, her father would always bring her the runt of the litter to bottle feed. She would baby the pig and raise it, and then later in the year have it slaughtered and she would enjoying eating her pet. Somewhat horrifying to me and I'm sure to many of you, but that is what I call the "farm mentality".

carollynne Good hear that your DH's progress seems to be chugging along.

We went to see #4Son'sGF, it's about a 90 minute drive each way, but she's such a sweet girl, and we were expecting bad weather, so we weren't sure if our son was going to be able to make it down there today. Her mom and Grandma were glad to see us, they took the opportunity to go and have lunch/dinner while we sat and visited.

They still don't know what she has. It is my understanding that Crohn's is an auto-immune disease, and UC may or may not be, but is treated as such. They were going to give her an immune system repressing drug, but they waited because she really didn't want to take it. So because the 19 year old girl questioned them, they decided to wait for the biopsy results before administering drugs. It's a good thing they did, because they determined that currently, she has a "regular" infection and the drugs they were planning on giving her would have quite possibly killed her. My faith is the medical establishment is getting worse all the time.

The 3 hours in the car gave the wife and I a good bit of time to talk. We talked about diet and weight loss and goals and stuff.

The good news;

Says she committed to getting healthier.

Says she's not going to let me leave her behind. (in weight loss and health)

She ate oatmeal again this morning (with milk and butter)

The bad news;

She's not going to give up meat, dairy, butter or fat.

If it tastes good it must be good for you.

She thinks the doctor is going to be able to give her a pill to make her feel better.

Seemed to be shocked and somewhat upset that I'm planning on losing at least another 50 pounds.

This was probably still the best conversation we've had. I tried to keep the technical talk to a minimum, she hates science and doesn't respond well to scientific facts. She'll argue for a long time just over something simple like me telling her the sun is 93,000,000 miles from earth. She remarked about how much willpower I have to follow this "diet", I told her I had no real explanation and pointed out that if I actually had willpower, then eating less and in moderation would have worked for me years ago like she has always suggested. I finally told her, "Maybe I've just become addicted to feeling good." We'll see, baby steps.

We met #1 son and his wife for dinner at Bob Evans. #1son's wife is the one that was going to go vegetarian after seeing how much weight I've lost. Well, I guess a peanut butter sundae is vegetarian..lol I ordered a salad and baked potato and their festival bean soup. The soup was awful, I figured there would be a little piece of ham in it, I can deal with that, but for a soup that is only supposed to have 2 grams of fat in it, I was shocked that it was just a bowl of greasy nastiness. I didn't eat it and it was removed from the bill. The wife had the full turkey dinner and even bought a loaf of their banana bread home. I know what you are thinking, banana bread, that could be healthy? 1 serving has 430 calories, 16 grams of fat, 2 grams of saturated fat and 1 gram of trans fat. It's like a brick of death...
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby nicoles » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:10 am

I am glad you and your wife could have such a good conversation, Dissolution! That is marvelous news.

It really sounds like she is inching towards a healthier lifestyle, and for that to happen it may need to come in her own time.

I was looking back over my handwritten journal from 2010/2011 (not the journal in this forum, which I did not even start until I was already "all in") and I realized I had all the information I needed to change my life, plus the motivation of a painful autoimmune disease, and it still took me a good 6 months to get up the nerve, and this was with no pressure from anyone, all on my own steam.

And BOY did I BINGE on EVERYTHING BAD the two weeks before I started :lol: :lol: :lol:

So I guess I mean that I have more sympathy for those "on the outside looking in." It is a lot easier from our current perspective - we've already walked through the fire and realized it wasn't so bad, not bad at all as a matter of fact!


I am rooting for you and her! :-D

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby fulenn » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:56 am

Sounds like you got a good talk in. At least the ice has been broken and it is a conversation now, instead of her reacting to everything she disliked. Maybe now there is a chance that she will either accept what you are doing, or, dare I say it(??), join you. :)

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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:36 pm

Don't underestimate the power of Earthlings to change how people think about food. It can. I'm not "normal" either. :lol: I was raised by hunters and grew up surrounded by animal corpses.

http://poetthis.blogspot.com/2007/01/trophies.html I'm the girl in the back.

I also have a picture packed away somewhere of a baby Agnes chewing on a dead squirrel's foot. Raising an animal and sending it off to be killed isn't the same as killing it yourself. Sending it away to slaughter may be worse in that it just adds to the disconnect we have with our food. I think I have more respect for hunters who do their own dirty work than for the mindless drooling zombies at the supermarket strolling the meat and dairy aisles. :lol: I don't know if I could kill an animal. Maybe a fish, if I were very hungry and that was my only option. I remember my grampa killing one of the bunnies he raised. Did you know rabbits scream? I remember one time my mom and dad butchering chickens--and the headless bird running in circles in the yard. One time, when my ex-in-laws butchered their chickens, my MIL was cleaning a bird and stuck her finger through its gullet or gizzard or something, and all this slimy cornmeal stuff oozed out. :\ Gag. I couldn't eat chicken for a year after that. I didn't much like the taste of her birds anyway. I always said I preferred the chemically-treated, hormone-laced store-bought meat because the other homegrown and hunted stuff tasted wild. I think the "wild" I was tasting is life. The factory-farmed stuff in the supermarket is death. Anyway, all this is to say, I think I've been where your wife is at in her thought processes concerning meat. It's not something I ever thought I'd want or choose to give up eating, and I was pretty vocal about that. Like you, I started down this path for personal health reasons, but I think our "health" is bigger than the foods on our plates. There's a mental component. The intentional disconnect we have from our food sources is itself a kind of disease. Headinthesanditis. We're like dumb junkies who really don't want to know about the poisons that our drugs have been cut with. We prefer ignorance and another cheap high. Humans can talk themselves into anything if it's easy and feels good. Even a starch-based diet. Somebody's just gotta plant that seed. If your wife isn't willing to eliminate meat, dairy, and oil, well that's where she's at. That doesn't mean she can't start adding in more starches. Dr. McDougall recommends that approach in his latest newsletter. http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/ ... starch.htm

For some people (obstinant/contrary/selfish folks like your wife and I ;-) ) the worst thing you can do is tell them "No, you can't/shouldn't ever." That just makes us stand taller and scream "yes, I can/will always!" that much louder. We can drown you out 'til death us do part.

Sometimes it's better, especially in the beginning, to focus more on positives (adding) rather than negatives (subtracting/restricting). Add starch. Add fiber. Add vegetables. Add fruit. Add stuff with phytochemicals. The more you add, the less room there is for the less healthy stuff...because room is limited. In your wife's case, the addition of oatmeal, even with milk and butter, is probably a good thing. The problem with her solution of "pills docs give you to feel better" is that pills almost always come with side effects that lead to more pills to feel better and more side effects and more pills and side effects and more pills. In the end, you just wind up sicker with a cupboard full of pills and an empty piggy bank. Better to spend that money on bread and oatmeal and save up for a cruise. That's what the pill pushers do with all the money you give 'em, ya know. Cruises. Lots of cruises. :lol: ;-)

In the spirit of addition, one thing you can focus on is adding new vegetables and exploring tasty and healthy ways to prepare them. I did that long before I ever decided to eliminate flesh from my diet. Once upon I time I never ate greens. I never ate eggplant. I never ate king mushrooms or oyster mushrooms or enoki mushrooms. I never ate Persian cukes. I never ate Japanese sweet potatoes. I never ate kabocha, buttercup, or banana squash. I never ate plantains. I never ate speckled butter beans. I never ate LOTS of things I can say I've eaten now. Who knows? That might be an adventure you could share. You may like this site:
http://kitchen-parade-veggieventure.blogspot.com/ The focus is on vegetables, but its goal isn't to turn readers into vegans/vegetarians. :mrgreen:

I have 3 bunches of spinach I need to use up...
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby carollynne » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:03 pm

Great news, :-D about the long drive and the long time to talk too. Sounds like you are going very strongly in the right direction and when you lose the next 50 she will have to step up to bat and start swinging, put her money where her mouth is, in order words with the hubby looking so good, she will have to do something and stop all the BS!! You are quite a man to have put up with all of this and hope she does start getting healthy too. ;-)
My area is beautifully filled with family farms, lots of plain people, like the uniformed old order Mennonite, and German Baptist and they have lovely looking and maintained farm, and their animals are well cared for, until of course they are led off to slaughter... and tons of state game lands and lot of hunters. DH has always been one too. Still isl........ Too bad, so SAD too! Decided that my health was more important than being in the in crowd of SAD eating.
I must also add that is sure sounds like you do not mind long drives either.
Have a good weekend and love it when we can all just get along!! :D
Last edited by carollynne on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby Dissolution » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:40 pm

nicoles Thanks for that perspective. I hope she will start doing some research. She has pretty much been over-weight her entire life, and has tried just about every diet know to man. I think once she was diagnosed with diabetes, she quit trying. The last diet I can remember her trying was the Susan Summers diet. So maybe she is gathering her courage to dive into a new lifestyle, wouldn't that be wonderful.

fulenn Hopefully the conversations will continue. I did notice today that she did not eat any meat for breakfast and lunch, I didn't say anything and it might not mean anything, but there's always hope.

AlwaysAgnes Haha, great picture! What is that thing!?

Ok, I will agree to watch Earthlings, before I decide if it will have any effect on her. Since you were holding that dead thing in the picture. She's done plenty of chicken killing and deer butchering. She told me she would get into trouble if she let the chickens run around after she cut off their heads.

OMG Thank you so much for that "Eat More Starch" challenge! That's perfect! Now the only question is, do I show her the whole article, or just tell her about it. Starches I can get her to eat, veggies are a much tougher sell.

carollynne The wife told me today that I was not allowed to weigh less than her (Her current is 210), I told her she had better get a moving. She insisted that it would be better if I just slowed down...lol

I guess I did seem a little overly critical of my wife this morning. After all, we did make some good progress yesterday, and today too I think.

This afternoon I asked her if she would prefer if I made a barley, lentil and mushroom soup on the stove with the exhaust fan going, or in the dinning room using the crock pot. She selected the crock pot. At one point she actually asked me what smelled so good?!?! She said it smelled like her stuffing! Of course by the time it was ready to eat she was back to disliking the smell ( I think it must be onions).

A friend who has been keeping up on things, had suggested that I agree to taste her cooking, and have her taste mine. So I offered her some of my barley and mushroom soup. So we had this exchange.

Her: Maybe I could put a couple of cup on the stove in a pot and fix it up.
Me: That would be cool.
Her: Like add butter
Me: ...
Her: and cream
Me: Oooo, that sounds good!
Her: and maybe some chicken.
Me: I bet that would be excellent.

I think she was trying to get a rise out of me, but she at least talked about eating my food. She wound up having a ham sandwich and fried red potatoes. Even the use of red potatoes over her normal white ones is a change.

When I came into the kitchen while she was cooking, I asked her what she was making. She said that she needed some protein, so was having a fried ham sandwich. I very tactfully pointed out that there was protein in almost all food. She asked about butter, I said no, "butter is all fat". She replied, "fat makes your brain smart". I replied "no, fat makes you fat". It was a very polite exchange with no resolution, but it could have gone much worse.

I can't get The “Eat More Starch” Challenge: Eat 12 Slices of Bread Daily to Lose 10 Pounds Monthly article out of my head. That truly might be the answer for her. I'm sure she'll think it sounds ridiculous, but maybe that's why I could get her to try it.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby carollynne » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:29 am

Hey there Dissolution, your barley, mushroom and lentil soup sounds so good. That was actually my youngest son's favorite soup to make up and we had it all the time for at least a 2 yrs when he still lived here, before he moved to Atlanta and now in my care packages to him, I always include a few bags of lentils too. Have you ever tried a grain called farro? It is a Italian pearled barley that is very good in soups too.
It does sound as though progress that been made for you and your wife. Great news. I love it! A challenge that you simply cannot under weigh her, is just so dear!! Let that motivate her then. For the longest time I always wanted to under-weigh my DH too! and I do and funny, but I was stuck at 210 for a long too, yrs ago. Before my vegan days, that is, I truly could never lost enough wt and keep it off as an animal eater.....
Have a great Sunday with your family!
I have lost about 60 lbs and never thought I'd be in the 150s ever again. cured my NAFLD!! Feel great!! Wt loss is so good for the knees and back, ankle, that I know I will never start back to the SAD way of eating again.
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Re: Dissolution's Solution

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:02 am

It's a beaver.
You don't have to wait to be happy.
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