Dissolution's Solution

[scooterpie]

didi's words may be worth a shot. At first read I thought not, but reading more posts here later, maybe it's worth a try--not engaging her at all. Of course it may also be impossible.

. . . you are spending a LOT of time tiptoeing around a very manipulative immature abusive woman.
. . .
Life is short, and one becomes used to being mistreated, and we ratiionalize it, not to our benefit.

The words manipulative, immature and abusive describe a person with possible borderline personality disorder. A person could be those things from time to time, but if it's the norm--perhaps the shoe fits.

For anyone who identifies with that description of a friend, partner or family member, definitely check out Walking on Eggshells, which is a book about borderline personality disorder. Even if the person is diagnosed and accepts the diagnosis, it's apparently very difficult to treat.

I have a couple of family members who suffer from it. And unfortunately if I have anything to do with one of them on a one-to-one basis, I suffer too. I say apparently difficult to treat because both of these people see a psychiatrist regularly, I simply don't know if they're being treated. One I have chosen to have nothing to do with after trying to maintain some communication for a couple of years. The other lives quite a few states away from me, and the relationship is semi-manageable that way.

For me, it simply exhausted me to continue to try with the first person. I felt obligated to try and all I got for my trouble was stress, and I think it played a huge part in my health deteriorating at the time. I simply had to back off and learn to take care of myself in light of this relationship. I accepted that they were ill and there was very little I could do about it, but I could help myself. It took finally realizing just how ill they are. I had to protect myself and especially my health.

The more the victim of BPD knows you the worse position you're in, because in their mind everything is your fault, and if not, it's someone else's. Nothing is their fault.

There are nuances of course, and I'm not a psych professional.

[peasouper]

Hi Dis

You say your wife complains about you having bad breath and BO. This is almost certainly a construction of her own. I think she is using this as a method of avoiding intimacy, if this has started since you began your diet and is coupled with a reluctance for you to see her naked I would imagine she is having great difficulty with her own body image. She is seriously overweight and has major health issues, she see’s you loosing weight, getting fit, and looking younger. You are already younger than her and now you look much younger than her. She is embarrassed about herself and so attempts to alienate you.

Another thing you say is that she blames you for her being a bitch. There is a book by a famous psychiatrist called Eric Berne called The Games People Play. It is all about understanding and treating relationship disorders. I recommend it to you. One of the games is “look what you made me do”. It might be a good idea to get it and have a read because I believe your wife is using this one. (Amazon.com $8.03, second hand including shipping.)

Erich Fromm has pointed out that ”many people fear their freedom to choose and to construct themselves and their reality. Blind adherence to convention or fashion or to religious or political ideologies can often serve as a way of escaping responsibility for making choices”, your wife is doing this by clinging to her food ideologies despite their effect on her health, she seriously fears change and is doing everything she can to avoid it.

“A relationship is not a given but, like other aspects of our lives can be consciously created but it is a mutual process to be negotiated together by the people involved, being able to communicate openly is really necessary”.

It seems much easier for you to lay yourself open, as shown by your frank comments in your journal. You wife seems to find this extremely difficult and feels the need to ‘score’ eg the comment she reported your friend made about your way of eating said only to her – she did not need to tell you that, if she thought it would hurt your feelings she could have kept it to herself.

I share Nicoles’ sentiments that you are going to come to a time of crisis.

Be strong, take care, get the Eric Berne book it might give you a better insight.

Best wishes Sue

[♥ Amy ♥]

What do you order at Panera? Just curious...I find there salads sort of a joke if you don't eat meat.

The apple one w/out Chicken is probably my favorite. It's a favorite place of my son but I shy away from the lack of choices.

[AlwaysAgnes]

Hi Dis

You say your wife complains about you having bad breath and BO. This is almost certainly a construction of her own. I think she is using this as a method of avoiding intimacy, if this has started since you began your diet and is coupled with a reluctance for you to see her naked I would imagine she is having great difficulty with her own body image. She is seriously overweight and has major health issues, she see’s you loosing weight, getting fit, and looking younger. You are already younger than her and now you look much younger than her. She is embarrassed about herself and so attempts to alienate you.

Based on previous posts, I think she does have sniffer issues, though. Maybe she's using those to avoid intimacy. Maybe she's not. Maybe everyone here is projecting. If you have sniffer issues, you know it's not something easy to get past. Smell is hard to ignore. Just because you can't smell what she's smelling doesn't mean she's not smelling what she's smelling or that whatever she's smelling is not offensive or that she's fabricating the odors or pretending or lying about the odors in order to be mean, act out or avoid intimacy. Some may want to make this woman out to be hateful conniving and manipulative. But maybe her brain is just broken. Maybe it's a physical problem.

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder. ... klist.html
Signs Of Olfactory Dysfunction (Smells):

1. Hypersensitivity To Smells (Over-Responsive):

__ reacts negatively to, or dislikes smells which do not usually bother, or get noticed, by other people

__ tells other people (or talks about) how bad or funny they smell

__ refuses to eat certain foods because of their smell

__ offended and/or nauseated by bathroom odors or personal hygiene smells

__ bothered/irritated by smell of perfume or cologne

__ bothered by household or cooking smells

__ may refuse to play at someone's house because of the way it smells

__ decides whether he/she likes someone or some place by the way it smells



2. Hyposensitivity To Smells (Under-Responsive):



__ has difficulty discriminating unpleasant odors

__ may drink or eat things that are poisonous because they do not notice the noxious smell

__ unable to identify smells from scratch 'n sniff stickers

__ does not notice odors that others usually complain about

__ fails to notice or ignores unpleasant odors

__ makes excessive use of smelling when introduced to objects, people, or places

__ uses smell to interact with objects
---

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/861242-overview
http://neurology.jwatch.org/cgi/content/full/2009/203/4
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 105049.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 004451.htm
http://www.ehow.com/about_5479526_senso ... dults.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory_pr ... g_disorder


For what it's worth.

[Dissolution]

didi I know I know, i shouldn't have said anything. In my mind though, I was just offering a great chef a different way of thinking about cooking for me.

Lasko77 You're lucky to have a husband like that.

I think she just prefers my hair very long, I used to wear a pony tail in my 20's when I owned a "tobacco" store. Although it could be the jealousy thing, cause she knows I can not afford to have long hair with my business now.

zippy I've been meaning to try that recipe. It's not something the wife would ever cook.

Lesliec1 I see your point.

There wasn't much I could do, I apologized and tried to talk but she wouldn't to me.

Katydid I think that's where I got the idea.

Melinda Thanks for sharing that. We had a bit of a talk this morning, and i think she honestly see me as the abuser. Her logic is, I want to go to the gym, she doesn't want me to go, I go anyway, I'm being abusive and don't care about anybody but myself.

Something is going to have to give soon, I'm going to need to see some serious positive come out of next weekend.

scooterpie I'm pretty sure that book has been recommended to me before, I think I'm going to see about ordering this evening.

peasouper The Bad breath and BO is something she only started complaining about since I began this way of eating. Matter of fact, we used to joke about how little BO I had. Deodorant has always been optional for me. she specifically tells me I stink because of what I eat.

I will look up that book too. I'll either get them on kindle or have them shipped to the business address.

♥ Amy ♥ I get the soup and half sandwich combo, with the vegetarian low fat black bean soup and the Mediterranean veggie on tomato basil, hold the cheese.

I've noticed that that some locations don't have the black bean soup.

AlwaysAgnes I think it's brain issues alright..lol If she's in the bedroom when I brush my teeth, she will most likely not comment on my breath. If she doesn't witness me brushing my teeth, she will react badly. And yes I have pointed this out to her, to no avail.

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Bad things I ate Yesterday: I had a pack of saltine crackers with some split pea soup. (from a dry mix)

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Our "dinner party" got delayed until tonight. As I mentioned in my response to Melinda, we talked some this morning, about how to "fix" us. Most of it came down to my lifestyle change and her perception that I don't care about anyone else. It works like this;

(Dramatization)
Me: Hey Hun, what do yo want to do today?
Her: Nothing, just sit around the house and only watch TV shows I want to watch on TV.
Me: Ok, well I'm going to go play golf with our sons.
Her: Why do you treat me so badly?

I'm not really exaggerating, just inventing some dialogue.

She told me again how she does not think this way of eating is natural and it's barbaric and she objects to it.

I kind of tabled our issues until our trip next weekend.

There's a product market in Leesburg, VA that also has a small zoo / petting zoo. This time of year they have a huge pumpkin festival. We went last year and she really enjoyed it. So that's where we went today. We were talking about what we had seen there last year and there was a pig that would play dead to get it's belly rubbed. I wondered aloud if it was still there.

Wife: Probably not, pigs don't live that long.
Me: They probably do if you don't kill them and make bacon!
Wife: That's my point! They taste like bacon!
Me: (sigh)

We stopped by a big grocery store on the way home, I picked up some file powder for gumbo and romanesco broccoli (my fav).

I hope everyone has a good weekend.

[peasouper]

Ok Dis

Seems to me the bad breath thing is about making you feel bad regarding your food choices, I've held back from saying it but what other conclusion is there?

She is trying her hardest to make you into what she wants, there seems to be no leeway, you stepped out of line big time.

Don't step back, you deserve better.

I have no doubt that if you do what she wants all will be sweetness and light and she will be kind to you, especially when you get sick.

Sounds like prison to me.

Be plant strong. Love Sue X

[nicoles]

Hey Dis.

Something is going to have to give soon, I'm going to need to see some serious positive come out of next weekend.

Hope all's well. Hope things go well with working on things this weekend.
Just some thoughts:

We had a bit of a talk this morning, and i think she honestly see me as the abuser. Her logic is, I want to go to the gym, she doesn't want me to go, I go anyway, I'm being abusive and don't care about anybody but myself.

and

Dramatization)
Me: Hey Hun, what do yo want to do today?
Her: Nothing, just sit around the house and only watch TV shows I want to watch on TV.
Me: Ok, well I'm going to go play golf with our sons.
Her: Why do you treat me so badly?

I'm not really exaggerating, just inventing some dialogue.

She told me again how she does not think this way of eating is natural and it's barbaric and she objects to it.

If these are accurate dramatizations, then that's crazy talk on her part. I think you are already aware of this. Crazy talk!

However this:

Wife: Probably not, pigs don't live that long.
Me: They probably do if you don't kill them and make bacon!
Wife: That's my point! They taste like bacon!
Me: (sigh)

Right there, that is pretty funny. Sounds like she can be pretty witty, and this seems to indicate that she is smart. Smart does not necessarily mean aware, of course.

So here are my questions to you, but I don't need the answers. I just hope you are asking yourself things along the same lines:

1)What do you want to happen?

2)How do you feel about the way she is treating you?

3)Do you really think you are abusing her?

and, most importantly:

4)Now that you have the knowledge and the ability to live long and prosper, what kind of life do you want to lead?

[fulenn]

Hi, Dissolution! Hope you had a great weekend and have gotten your body used to lifting again. I have taken a couple of months off of lifting myself and have to get out there and start again. I don't even have much of an excuse and the weights I lift are in the garage and I have DH here to spot me when needed. sigh.

Glad you are getting back on here and posting about your progress.

Fulenn

[Lesliec1]

1)What do you want to happen?

That's the million dollar question. Sometimes we still have the energy to fight and sometimes we want to (and need to) give up and move on. Maybe the hardest part is deciding what you actually want. But people here will support you either way.

[fulenn]

1)What do you want to happen?

That's the million dollar question. Sometimes we still have the energy to fight and sometimes we want to (and need to) give up and move on. Maybe the hardest part is deciding what you actually want. But people here will support you either way.

Yes! Leslie said it exactly like I wish I had thought to say it. We are here for you. Sometimes it takes awhile to get used to changes in one part of your self before you are ready to make changes in another part.

Fulenn

[LoriLynn]

Wow.

It has taken me several days to read through your journal.

I am amazed at your patience, perseverence, commitment and level of success, given your limitations. I feel very sad for your wife as you have depicted her. I sense a level of honesty in your writing that you have not exaggerated, at least not much.

I don't see anything that YOU can do that will change HER. That is clearly the problem here. You are bending over backwards to minimize confrontation, when it's bound to occur anyway. And you are paying the price for it.

Not knowing the whole story, I am going to offer my perspective, realizing that I probably shouldn't be butting in. I see your wife as fearful, insecure and desperately losing control. Is there anything in her life that she feels proud about, besides her baking abilities? She desperately needs to be good at something.

I recognize a pattern in her behaviors that I have used myself, although differently. When you find yourself in a situation that you are not sure you can succeed, you purposely sabotage yourself to ensure failure. Then you look back upon it and you have an excuse/reason for the failure. When I was studying engineering in college, I used to procrastinate, oversleep and miss class frequently. Then when I failed a class or got a D, I would be able to say I just didn't have the time, not that I wasn't "smart" enough. My biggest fear would be to have tried my hardest, done everything right, and then have failed. Somehow, despite my poor behavior, I managed to eventually pass all my classes, earn my degree and become a successful engineer. I hang my self esteem largely on the assumption that I am "smart".

Consequntly, I think somewhere inside, your wife realizes that what you are doing is really helping you, that you are a kind and considerate person and that you wish the best for her. But, she feels she cannot go where you have gone, she cannot succeed, and that she is trapped. It is easier to make your life so miserable that you will have to leave her, so that she can feel the victim in this. She cannot stand the idea that her life and health are crumbling away from her. She is alone. She is ensuring her own failure, the only thing that she can control.

Your efforts to accommodate her bizarre requests are only prolonging the inevitable. Don't let her force you into being the bad guy and leaving. Call her bluff. When she tries to sabotage you with food or demand that you help her peel shrimp, debone brisket or grill hamburgers, simply decline. She knows you can't do this in good conscience. It is one of the few controls she has over you and she will use it all she can. I realize that what I am suggesting will lead to an all-out tyrade on her part, but don't engage. Let her be the one to walk away from a loving and considerate guy. Really, how silly will she look leaving you because you wouldn't grill a burger or because you decided to take care of yourself? She wouldn't ask an alcoholic to pour her a drink, so she shouldn't ask a formerly morbid obese person to eat pies and cakes and candy. It's not fair to you.

And now, back on the subject of you. Your success has been mindboggling, considering your lack of support. My husband made the switch with me (after watching FOK), and he lost 50 pounds and got off all his medications for acid-reflux, high blood pressure, heart arrythmia, and anxiety. And I still have the nerve to complain when he buys juices, oreos, chips and other junk food for our two young daughters. Your story reminds me of how very fortunate I am.

Your weight loss has slowed down significantly. You have been maintaining a long time. I have been losing for a year and a half now and I am down over 100 pounds. I have had several long maintenance plateaus, one lasting for three months. It is way too easy to let one of those plateaus slip gradually into backsliding with the vegan junk food. I am going through that stage right now.

I think you need to refocus your efforts on yourself and step up your weight loss again. Ditch the bread products entirely, or at least until you can better control yourself with them again. Have you considered trying the MWL plan, even for just a couple of weeks? It can be a great way to jumpstart a stalling weight loss. Start logging and tracking food for awhile. Measure out quantities. While I realize that the beauty of McDougalling is that you don't have to do these things, they can be useful tools when we become overly comfortable with where we are. These words I am directing at you, I am directing at myself as well.

It almost seems like you are slacking off on your weight loss efforts to further avoid confrontation with your wife. You must treat yourself better than that. I realize the holidays are coming up again and that is most definitely going to increase the amount of drama in your household. It is a difficult time to step up the effort, but it is also an easy time to see everything unravel. Take care of yourself first, remain compassionate, and everything else will fall into place.

Your wife is nearing her bottom. Your actions (by constantly giving in to unreasonable requests) have been delaying that moment. Let her find it on her own so that she can find her way out. You can't do that for her. Try to be there if you can should she turn to you for support. If not, don't prolong the inevitable.

I would still love to see a miraculously happy turnaround here. I await future entries with eagerness.

[nicoles]

Hi Dissolution

1)What do you want to happen?

That's the million dollar question. Sometimes we still have the energy to fight and sometimes we want to (and need to) give up and move on. Maybe the hardest part is deciding what you actually want. But people here will support you either way.

Yes! Leslie said it exactly like I wish I had thought to say it. We are here for you. Sometimes it takes awhile to get used to changes in one part of your self before you are ready to make changes in another part.

Fulenn

Leslie and Fulenn both say it much better than I did in my last post. We are all in your corner!


And I also agree with what LoriLynn said so eloquently:

It almost seems like you are slacking off on your weight loss efforts to further avoid confrontation with your wife. You must treat yourself better than that. I realize the holidays are coming up again and that is most definitely going to increase the amount of drama in your household. It is a difficult time to step up the effort, but it is also an easy time to see everything unravel. Take care of yourself first, remain compassionate, and everything else will fall into place.

Your wife is nearing her bottom. Your actions (by constantly giving in to unreasonable requests) have been delaying that moment. Let her find it on her own so that she can find her way out. You can't do that for her. Try to be there if you can should she turn to you for support. If not, don't prolong the inevitable.

Take care of yourself, Dis. You are absolutely worth it.

[peasouper]

A great post LoriLynn, very sound advice.

Dissolution I hope you are OK, we have not heard from you for a while.

Sending you my best wishes, Sue

[Debbie]

Just checking to see how everything is going.

[Dissolution]

peasouper In her mind though, I am the tyrant. I am the one forcing my will on others. I am the unreasonable one.

nicoles I'll answer your questions.

1)What do you want to happen? I want to be happy and I want her to be happy. If this means we get divorced, then so be it.

2)How do you feel about the way she is treating you? Honestly, I think I'm becoming more bitter and jaded by the day. There was a time when, if she was mad at me, it upset me greatly. now, I find I don't really care that much. I am growing tired of her attitude.

3)Do you really think you are abusing her? Not in the least. I think it's normal and healthy for people to disagree, and should be able to do so without excess drama.

4)Now that you have the knowledge and the ability to live long and prosper, what kind of life do you want to lead? I think so.

fulenn Keep hitting them weights. I haven't been tot he gym in a couple of weeks, just because the tension around here has been so high. Also haven't been posting like I should.

Lesliec1 Bottom line is I want her to be happy, as long as i don't have to sacrifice my health and happiness to do it. I'm not talking about all the normal husband stuff like, shopping when I don't want to, spending money on stuff I don't want to, painting crap colors I don't like. I can do all that stuff and still be happy, as long as it is making her happy. But she is acting miserable, and it's bringing me down. Will I be sad if we split up, of course. But it would give both of us a chance at happiness we don't seem to be getting now.

LoriLynn What great comments! I've started working on ditching bread this week. Also going to read up on MWL, since I've never really done it. Thanks for the great advice though. I'm in my 3 month plateau. Honestly I think I've tried to sabotage myself many many times. The beast has fed repeatedly, it's almost like I'm trying to gain weight. I need to buckle down and finish this, so I can release the vegan beast and have a very happy life long maintenance.

Shockingly, when I hit 220, the wife was around 215. During the past 4 months, she has gotten down to 192. I'm very proud of her, and have told her so. She does get frustrated because when we run into people, even though we've both lost close to 100 pounds, they are more likely to say something about my weight loss rather than hers.

Debbie Been busy and too much drama..

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Our trip was good, mostly without incident. We stopped by some friend's house in northern DE on our way home. They were cooking chicken wings for us and another couple. Mentioned the vegan thing, they offered me fresh cut fruit and steam asparagus. Wonderful hosts.

About 30 minutes into the 3 hour drive home the wife quit speaking to me. She had said one of my friend's wasn't happy with his life and that neither was I, I told her I thought she was the unhappy one.

Thursday morning I was sitting out on the back porch with her reading, I guess it was a good book and I lost track of time. I has put some rice in the cooker when I made breakfast and my plan was to stir fry some green beans and tomatoes with the rice and pack it for lunch. I went into the kitchen and noticed she had a frying pan of breakfast sausage cooking on the stove, so I figured I would go and take my shower and then prepare my lunch.

After I got dressed and went back into the kitchen, the sausage was still frying and popping away. I went out to the back porch and sat down and said, "I need to cook my lunch. Could you let me know when you are done with the stove?" (This is exactly what I said) She said, "There are 3 other burners on the stove why can't you use one of them?" to which I replied, "I don't really want to cook my lunch next to the greasy sausage."

Well....Hell broke lose. She screamed and raged and threw her sausage in the sink, which I washed off and put back in the skillet for her. I prepared my lunch and said goodbye to leave for work. I'm getting ready to back out of the driveway and she comes outside. She says, "You stuff will be packed when you get home." I said, "I guess I should probably just pack up now." I turned off the car and went into the house. More screaming and yelling, #3 and #4 sons woke up, and couldn't figure out why she was so mad. My desire not to cook next to sausage seemed reasonable to them.

She told me I couldn't take the car and leave her stranded. Looks like it's time to buy another car.