100% Plant Based or 80/20 ok?

[Raquel1002]

Hi all,
Do most of you aspire to PB eating 100% of the time? I'm fairly new to PB (about a year but inconsistently) and am still trying to find what works best for me. I heard some do '80/20' or '90/10' where you eat a percentage PB and a percentage non PB.

A part of me thinks that eating 100% PB keeps me from experiencing the basic human need of a sense of belonging with others who're indulging especially around the holidays. But this thinking can also justify what I'm starting to think of as harmful behavior. Given I am in terrific physical condition with no weight to lose, I know I can go off plan and bounce back easily. But I'm realizing that the cost (food hangover since I usually over-do it) isn't worth the freedom from remorse and the 'wholesome' feeling I experience from sticking with PB. What's confusing is that sometimes I can go off plan in moderation with only slight negative consequences, whereas other times I can't.

Another reason I'm considering taking the full leap to 100% PB is cuz I have a lot of belly fat that is really uncomfortable! When I was following Medical Medium's (Anthony William) plan a few years ago for about 1 month (to see if helped a chronic 'mystery' illness), I was at the same weight I am now but the belly fat melted away readily and easily!! A flat stomach - felt so good! Not for the look as much as it just felt more physically comfortable, in my clothes and while sitting, standing etc. That's why I think if I did give up the oils, vegan butter/mayo, dark chocolate, corn chips, and coconut ice cream (I weigh it out), perhaps I can get there again. But I'm feeling like another person who posted here; the emotional attachment to theses foods is hard to break!!

Also: Included in my oatmeal each day is 7 grms of Black Strap Molasses (for the iron; the serving size is 14 gms but that much makes my oats not taste good). I also stir in 1 Tsp of organic syrup and 1 Tsp organic honey (both are pure; no added ingredients). I include these small amounts because I've heard they are really good for you. But I wonder if these foods lend to sugar cravings making it more difficult to adhere to PB 100%. Having tried many food plans these past 20 years since the onset of this chronic illness, there have been times I've completely eliminated all these foods for several-month periods and I do think the cravings when away. Interesting, I don't experience sugar cravings daily, at least not consciously, as I'm mostly eating PB day after day, but it seems that lately I've been thinking about sweets more, whether I end up indulging or not, which could be due to the holiday season or could be the additional emotional stress I'm under, or both. or to the sugars mentioned above (honey, dark choc, etc).

Thanks for reading, and feedback sorely welcomed!!

[bunsofaluminum]

Hi Raquel

I've been attached to the McDougall Plan since 2009, and back in the 90's I followed it for a bit less than a year. Both times, I found myself enjoying such amazing stamina and energy. I did lose pounds both times, which is wonderful. When I was losing steadily I found that the closer I stuck to the McDougall guidelines (this means not only Plant Based, but no added oils AT ALL, and because of obesity, no high fat foods such as avocados, nuts, or nut butters) the better the pounds went away. For instance, when I made a huge batch of homemade granola I started having it for breakfast with almond milk, and my weight loss stalled. When I had the granola with apple juice instead, the weight started going down again.

Currently I am working towards a 100% compliance, after almost a full year of dorking around with it. Well, let's say just slowly readjusting back to more compliant...after three years of ignoring the "no added fats" part and gaining back ALL the weight I lost from '09 to '13. For me, the plant part is not at all difficult. I don't miss meat or dairy at all, but the fats!

I get where you're coming from, having to comply while others around us are eating whatever. This is where the Feast Days come in. Dr McDougall recommends several feast days a year, for special occasions and holidays. On those days, a lot of people eat off plan, but it isn't recommended for people who are trying to shed body fat. However, I have always had my feast days...fewer when I'm being serious, but even when I was die hard, fully IN and not cheating on anything, I did take the occasional feast day. Every Christmas for sure, and sometimes my feast foods are things like dates and pistachios, while other times I go all out and have the classic SAD treats...but truly I stay away from them UNTIL the feast day. IOW, the days between T'giving and Xmas are NOT ALL FEAST DAYS!

This year there are four parties between Thanksgiving and Dec 31, and those days I have planned to enjoy some of the treats offered, AFTER eating something on plan. E.g., mashed potatoes and veggies w/gravy before the company party so maybe I'll slow down on the punkin pie (or whatever). But I can also say with full confidence that it is possible for a feast day to trigger weeks of "treats" and "just a tastes" so you have to be careful with feasting. It's true that food manufacturers add salt, fat, and sugar to processed foods in order to get us spending more on their stuff. It's addictive and they know it, so a single Reese's miniature can trigger me into an unhealthy eating spiral.

As for eating with people for special occasions. I've done a few different things. First, I already mentioned eating something on plan a half hour before going to a party. When I get there, if it's a buffet or potluck, I choose dishes that fit with McDougalling. But added oil becomes a factor for that kind of thing. Usually there's something I can enjoy, and most people don't even notice that there's no slab of meat or pile of potato chips on my plate.

Another thing that has worked for me is following a skinny person through the buffet line my sister, e.g. who never overeats. Whatever she puts on her plate, that's what I put INCLUDING her portions. Also, observing the skinny person. Usually a skinny person doesn't pop an entire eclair in her mouth. Instead she nibbles or maybe tears a piece off the end. That applies to many things, btw. Those mashed potatoes and gravy? Small bites, poking around in the veggies to find the tastiest looking piece. Etc. IOW, not just shoveling one bite after another into her face.

So the short version is: avoid processed foods, avoid added oils and fats, enjoy every kind of starch you can think of along with the huge variety of non-starchy vegs available. There are THOUSANDS of recipes that fit with McDougalling as-is, or with a little tweaking. Of course, no animal anything. And allow yourself a few feast days per year but be careful of triggers.

Come on in! The water's fine

[Raquel1002]

Hi Bunsofaluminum~!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I especially liked the idea of following a thin person through the buffet line, and watching how they eat! I actually am thin (with a ton of belly fat) but never eat the way your sister eats. Wow. For example today at our holiday party at work, I had decided to keep it simple by bringing my own food which I ate and thoroughly enjoyed, but then glanced at the desert bar and it was all over. I didn't nibble as you say your sister does. I kinda wish I hadn't even looked over in that direction given I was doing so well with my own food, which I had plenty of!

I didn't know McDougall recommends Feast Days throughout the year! Thanks for letting me know! Just that were I to overeat on the feast day (as i did at a Christmas Partly last week at my place of residence/apartment complex), I worry I might end up not wanting to socialize. Or if I did, it would be a 'false cheerfulness' because overeating really affects me emotionally. Unless I know I can go for an intense work out later on. Perhaps I need to learn to go off plan on Feast Days w/o overeating! So hard for me!

Anyway, lots to read and ponder some more. Thank you so very much for your time!

Raquel

[jamietwo]

I would say Dr. McDougall "allows" feast days, rather than recommends them. I think a lot of it depends on your personality. I'm an all or nothing type of a person, so once I determine that this is the way I'm going to eat, I'm all in ... 100% (zero animal products ... exempting honey ... since 2000, no added oils since I made that commitment in 2007). My friends and co-workers know that if I go out to "eat" with them, which admittedly is rare, that I will order water. I know you can try to order on-plan, but for me, purist that I am, its easier to just order water. There's also the pleasure trap. Your taste buds will adjust to this way of eating but every time you go off plan, you'll have to "re-train" them. So one feast day could turn into a week or a month or more of off-plan foods. In the end, its your call. What works for you and how much do you want it? Good luck!

[Ltldogg]

Raquel1002,

To answer your question, no. Although this program does not preach being perfect, it does not allow for foods that are not on plan and certainly does not encourage them. If you are wanting to go 80/20 then you are already setting yourself up to fail and you would probably be eating closer to only 60 or even 40% on plan as humans tend to lie to themselves and others; not saying you would, it's just reality, even on these forums.

If you want short and long-term success and great health, you should stick to the McDougall Program and strive to be 100% on-plan. An occasional slip-up will happen and sometimes is unavoidable when on the road or not at home, but you should be trying at all cost to avoid these times by being prepared ahead of time.

Jeff Novick and Dr. McDougall have done an excellent job laying out everything you need to know to follow this program and gain great health. Please read over the boards and this site as everything is free. Additionally, any questions you have will have been answered already on these forums by Jeff or Dr. McDougall. So please learn to use the SEARCH feature

Cheers and Good Health to you,
Scott

[bunsofaluminum]

I would say Dr. McDougall "allows" feast days, rather than recommends them. I think a lot of it depends on your personality. I'm an all or nothing type of a person, so once I determine that this is the way I'm going to eat, I'm all in ... 100% (zero animal products ... exempting honey ... since 2000, no added oils since I made that commitment in 2007). My friends and co-workers know that if I go out to "eat" with them, which admittedly is rare, that I will order water. I know you can try to order on-plan, but for me, purist that I am, its easier to just order water. There's also the pleasure trap. Your taste buds will adjust to this way of eating but every time you go off plan, you'll have to "re-train" them. So one feast day could turn into a week or a month or more of off-plan foods. In the end, its your call. What works for you and how much do you want it? Good luck!

Yes, "allows" is a better word.

As for a feast day triggering off-plan binges, I mention that in my post, having lived through one Easter, where I looked forward so much to having a Reese's Miniature. One. and BAM triggered, and several weeks later I woke up and said WAIT A MINUTE! and had to pull back after tasting "just a little bit" of every treat imaginable. So yeah, you gotta be careful with feast days, and they should only be a few, if any. You're wise to go all or nothing. It's the best place to be, for sure!

[Lyndzie]

What I find interesting is how a person quantifies their percentage of compliance. For instance, in the month of November I ate “off plan” four times. If I eat three meals a day plus one snack, that is 4 x 30 = 120. 4/120=3.3% compliant based on that metric.

This month has had more poor food choices, but my personal goal is to get as close to on plan as possible. I recognize that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and this is my life long journey to work towards.

[f00die]

...
This month has had more poor food choices, but my personal goal is to get as close to on plan as possible. I recognize that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and this is my life long journey to work towards.

yup JeffN says we are in it for the long term
as i understand it
the number 95% that he uses as a goal to "get right"
is related to calories
95% of calories consumed
come from recommended vs allowed or other sources
and the principles and guidelines
are used when putting meals together
same with the "starch-based" description

Category IV -- Health-Supporting Foods

These foods are health-supporting. They allow your body to attain and maintain its naturally intended state of good health. They should account for the greatest share (at least 90 percent) of your calories if you are healthy and for all of them if you are still working to regain your health.

1. Whole grains, such as wheat, rice, barley, millet, rye, oats, corn, and popcorn.

2. Milled grains, such as whole-wheat flour, corn meal, brown rice flour, rye flour, oatmeal, and bulgur.

3. Starchy vegetables, such as white potatoes, sweet potatoes, yams, and cassava.

4. Green and yellow vegetables, such as spinach, kale, zucchini, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, and onions.

5. Sprouted seeds and beans, such as alfalfa, radish, wheat, mung bean, and lentil.

6. Beans, peas, lentils, such as kidney beans, white beans, garbanzo beans, pinto beans, split peas, and red lentils. (These legumes are high-protein. They should be restricted to about one cup of cooked food on average daily and restricted even more for people with osteoporosis, kidney stones, and liver or kidney failure.)

7. Fresh fruits. (All edible varieties of these are suitable; however, most people should limit them to about three per day. They contain simple sugars that are largely protected by fiber. People trying to lose weight and people with high triglycerides should consider further limitation.)

from https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/nyr.htm

[Lyndzie]

Thank you, foodie! I was thinking of that quote, but could not remember where I had seen it. So, if a person eats 2000 cal/day, less than 10% would be less than 200 cal. And, of course, who really keeps the extras that low, such as a small square of chocolate? And the extras always have oil and/or animal products. Plus that whole Pleasure trap thing. Just gotta stick with those potatoes.

[Raquel1002]

Really inspired by all your guys feedback - thank you so much!! I will copy/paste the recommendations and keep it near by for easy reference till I have my routine down. I'm glad I have this forum because it's hard w/o the support at home or office. (I also will IM a few more personal responses.) Thanks again!