Beyond the 12-Day Program: Beth's Time & Adherence

[Trinity]

Haha thanks yours sounds like chai oatmeal! Yum!

[Lizzy_F]

Rick - I would have had the same reaction as you did to the "pudding" menu! I find it facinating to discover the differences among people who broadly speak the same language. That includes differences even within the US! I'll have to think of some specific examples. Going from "small town Illinois" to Chicago was a HUGE change in my early 20's. Then going from Chicago to Texas was an even bigger change! Lots of different food references for sure.

Trinity - thank you for the historic perspective on Chef AJ. I enjoy watching her cook stuff. It would take me 10 hours to do what she can do in 15 minutes when she is creating something for "company." (so therefore, I enjoy watching and never actuall MAKE her fancy stuff!) In the 12-day program she made a sweet potato enchillada type caserole and it looked delicious. I do have that recipe in mind to make sometime when we have company, because you KNOW I'm going to foist some WFPB food on people, even if they are having meat on the side! I am so used to oats+fruit+cinnamon that I continue to struggle with even the idea of savory oats! But I'm sure one day I will just give it a try. Right now I still have a disconnect between different parts of my brain on that topic! I love salsa though, so that might be a great place to start once I'm ready to give it a try! Thanks for that suggestion!

Accountability:

Food: I've been eating compliantly with Starch Solution 100%, and making progress on the MWL front. I'm curious whether any of the MWL people ever include corn torillas. I remember Dr. McDougall talking about weight loss and flours (but I can't remember if he was specifically talking about MWL). He talked about corn tortillas being an exception (possibly during the old 10-day program discussing food on offer?? I wish I could remember his context) because people don't tend to overeat them. I don't think corn tortillas are the optimal weight loss food just speaking for myself. I do consider them a "not horrible" occassional food, but not sure how much conflicet I'm creating for myself with the MWL guidelines. They are made of corn meal, which is basically corn flour, so it seems they are outside the MWL guidelines.

With this debate going on in my head (not obsessively so - just thinking about my choices) I chose to have corn tortillas with 2 meals over the weekend along with Mary's smashed beans, which are absolutely DELICIOUS!!!). I topped that with a little jarred salsa (I'm on the hunt for some lower sodium options other than home made) and then some deli counter pico de gallo (still too much salt) and a HUGE pile of just cut up tomatoes and onions. (So I might as well just suck it up and chop the jalapeno peppers and make my own LOL!) So delicious. Last night I made the same thing, only put the beans/salsa/tomato concoction over a baked potato. IT WAS JUST AS DELICIOUS! When I thaw out the rest of Mary's beans, I will have them over a potato, and possibly add some corn to the bowl which I think will bring in that corn tortilla flavor.

LOOONG story short - I think it's progress for me to be thinking like this. Examining by choices. Rather than just trying to justify a choice that might not be the BEST choice, I'm starting to think about options. How can I make this a healthier choice? I still have some mental resistance. I suppose that is normal after SO many years of unhealthy eating and Pleasure Trap existance. But progress is being made! I haven't won the war yet, but I feel like I'm taking some hills! If I can start viewing corn tortillas as a "treat" instead of ___________ (insert sugar/fat/salt/Pleasure Trap item here), then I think I have definitely progressed in this journey.

Another positive thought pattern has to do with considering multiple choices that are within the boundaries of the Starch Solution, but outside the boundaries of MWL. As previously noted, I like to toast a slice of Ezekiel bread to go with my soup. I haven't done that at all the last 2 weeks. Over this past weekend, my thought process was "I'm having corn tortillas, so I do not want to also have Ezekiel bread." The soup without the bread is still delicious!

Anyway, this stuff might not be victorious for everyone, but it's victorious for me. It's not "perfectionist" and it's not "all-or-nothing" and it feels to me like something reasonable. In all my years of battling with food, very little ever seemed "reasonable."

More later - gotta run but want to update about exercise and the functional six. Progress not perfection there as well!

[VegSeekingFit]

Hi Beth!!!

I am so not coming for your salt shaker!!! Please don't come for mine or for the sugar that I sometimes do add in a measured way (BBQ sauce and Balsamic crack vinegar... )... Great info in your journal!!! OMG, I have been thankful to find that I have no problem with sugar or salt so just use them consciously!!! Not in cooking, not in products that I am buying, but sometimes add to the flavor of a meal. Really helps with loving the food!!!

So, Corn tortillas aren't MWL compliant... They are too calorie dense (fails #7). I do find it ironic personally --- because I don't like them much at all --- and they were kind of handy sometimes for me when I was in a work meeting and wanted something to quickly consume on plan... (kind of like you mentioned with the Mary McD smashed beans)... Anyway, I do love to have those beans with rice in a bowl (ala Chipotle) and adding corn is super awesome!!!

Most tortillas, whether made from corn or wheat are around 900- 1000 cal/lb. Considering that beans/lentils tend to be a little higher then whole grains/cereals in calorie density, my guess is the tortillas will be around 900-1100 cal/lb.

In the old days, tortilla’s were allowed on MWL, but I think that was due to personal preference and not calorie density. We removed them a few years back but some still like to follow the old guidelines.

I hope that you are enjoying your week!!!! You are doing GREAT!!!

Cheers,
Stephanie

[Lizzy_F]

Hi Stephanie! Thank you for providing the Jeff quote re: corn tortillas. One of the down sides of the years and years and years of information out there from Dr. McDougall is that understandably, positions can change over the years, but we can still hear (and selectively remember, LOL!) info that sometimes might be outdated. Your meal bowl of Mary's Smashed beans + rice + corn and fixings sounds really delicious! I will definitely give that a try! At least I know I wasn't crazy when I "remembered" Dr. McDougall saying that corn tortillas were some sort of exception. (or maybe I was visited with some fiction during a dream! )

It will be interesting to see how rice sits with me these days. I have never managed to be this compliant on Starch Solution for this long. I definitely experienced an adaptation period at first to this low fat way of eating. I felt hungry all the time, sometimes even feeling "hungry-full" where I would eat a HUGE quantity of food - to the point of crossing the line into "uncomfortably full," and yet feel hungry at the same time. I would guess I have experienced that for 1 - 2 weeks, at which point I have given up in the past. Under those conditions, rice didn't feel like it worked for me. No matter how much rice I ate with my meal, I felt like I was still hungry.

I haven't eaten hardly any rice in the two months of being Starch Solution compliant. I wonder if it will sit a little different with me now that I feel more adapted to this eating plan? Might just be time to give it a try!

I'm curious if anyone else recalls some unusual things like that as they initially adapted to this style of eating?

[Lizzy_F]

Happy 2 month McDougall-versary to my 12-Day Program cohort! We started this life-changing journey on May 13. I am still in touch with a handfull of peers from the program - I know many of us are still going potato strong!

So what has changed in 2 months?

* MUCH improved sleep!
* No longer on thyroid medication (Dr. Lim initially felt I was over-medicated looking at my labs)
* Mood is amazing - potatoes (starch) is such a miracle food!
* No longer on low dose Naltrexone therapy (an off-label use of Naltrexone for a long list of conditions, including general pain in my case)
* No more hugely swolen ankles by the end of the day
* Far less pain and swelling in my knees
* My BP started at the high end of "normal" (i.e. pushing towards 120/80 and is now lower - typically 90's/60's.
* Weight on 5/13/22 was 196.4 Weight on 7/13/22 is 175.4. 21 pounds down in 2 months, and NEVER HUNGRY!!!
* I look forward to updated labs to check thyroid, cholesterol, etc. later this year.

My high weight last winter was 218. My cholesterol 1 year ago was a bit over 200. I was partially Starch Solution compliant from January - May 13. Partial compliance got me a start on weight loss (very slow) from 218 to 196.4. I credit partial compliance with a reduction in cholesterol - my pre-12-Day Program labs showed total cholesterol of just over 150. So I'm hopeful to see a little more improvement there with full compliance.

One cookie is quite literally the ONLY non-Starch Solution compliant food that has crossed my lips in two months. That is nothing short of amazing for someone who has struggled since I was a teenager (am 64 now) with disordered eating and what certainly felt like powerful food addiction.

No matter how much I have struggled to "get" this program for YEARS, I am so grateful that I could keep coming back here, and I have never been made to feel like a failure or "less than" because of my struggles. For that I am grateful to everyone on this forum who graciously supports those of us who take longer to find our way onto the McDougall Highway.

This feels like such a miracle. I cannot thank Dr. McDougall & the team enough for all of the energy, committment and resources they provide to make this gift available to all of us.

OH MAN I CANNOT WAIT FOR MY TIFFANY CHECK-IN THIS WEEK!!!!!! Friday. Only 2 more days!

OK - I'm off to do a grocery pickup. Can't run out of potatoes!!!

[Artista]

It will be interesting to see how rice sits with me these days. I have never managed to be this compliant on Starch Solution for this long. I definitely experienced an adaptation period at first to this low fat way of eating. I felt hungry all the time, sometimes even feeling "hungry-full" where I would eat a HUGE quantity of food - to the point of crossing the line into "uncomfortably full," and yet feel hungry at the same time. I would guess I have experienced that for 1 - 2 weeks, at which point I have given up in the past. Under those conditions, rice didn't feel like it worked for me. No matter how much rice I ate with my meal, I felt like I was still hungry.

I haven't eaten hardly any rice in the two months of being Starch Solution compliant. I wonder if it will sit a little different with me now that I feel more adapted to this eating plan? Might just be time to give it a try!

I'm curious if anyone else recalls some unusual things like that as they initially adapted to this style of eating?

Hi Lizzy, Yes, I have experienced that! “Hungry-full” describes it perfectly, feeling like I’m eating more food than ever but can’t seem to feel satiated. I have given up in the past because of that. I think of it as something like fat withdrawal and my body adjusting to eating less fat. Fortunately it does go away. You’re doing great!

[Lizzy_F]

Thank you Artista for sharing your experience! I feel less cRaZy when I know I'm not alone in the more unusual experiences! I too was thinking "fat withdrawal..."

[rickfm]

Beth, I hope you don't mind, but I came across something yesterday that immediately made me think of this thread and the recent discussion on salt.

I've taken to watching a few foreign news sources on Youtube that have English broadcasts, including WION (World is One) out of India. Imagine my surprise to catch this clip just yesterday.

Study links table salt to premature death

It's not WFPB relevant, but I find it to be so timely in light of my own realization, thanks to Jeff's input, that I need to rethink my use of salt.

[Lizzy_F]

Hi Rick! Hope you are having an awesome potato strong day today!

Thanks for sharing that video! You are always welcome to share interesting info that you encounter! What strikes me about the video is the foods that were shown. The vast majority were processed foods that contain a lot of salt. (bacon, sausages, etc.) It seems like the reporter is making the salt shaker out to be the problem. My guess is that the "11 grams on average sodium intake" she talks about is likely coming more from the processed foods than it is from the shaker. But of course that is just a guess and a generalization.

This program has been awesome as far as dramatically increasing my own awareness of sodium intake. My main issue right now is looking at the sodium content of condiments I use, and trying to find lower sodium alternatives. (ketchup, salsa, etc.) Making my own is certainly an option but not always practical from a time perspective. I am not yet where I want to be, but I'm a long way from where I was!

Greasy fried plates of animal food look SO unappetizing to me right now! (we need a barfing smilie!)

[Lizzy_F]

Hello world!!!

I still can't believe how GOOOOD my brain feels operating on potato power!

Non scale victory - a pair of denim shorts that were a tad too "muffin top" a few weeks ago are getting a little baggy now! Body is a changin'.

I got my hair colored yesterday. My stylist has had her own small salon for years - just her. She has 2 chairs going so usually it's her, me, and one other client. I've been seeing her for years so we know each other pretty well. She is a low carber who did great with weight loss initially, but has been struggling lately with some weight re-gain and I suspect, diffictulty getting excited about the food. I know that was my experience way back when. (side note - I always think of Dr. McDougall talking about how the weight loss is as a result of being SICK on low carb, etc. That makes total sense to me now that I FEEL how my brain/mood are on starches! I tricked my brain into low carb on a couple of occassions, but my brain will not be tricked again. I think that's why it became IMPOSSIBLE for me to stick to low carb again, even though I tried. I will be standing at the ready with Starch Solution in hand when my dear husband hits this wall.... but I digress!) Anyway, she commented on my weight loss telling me I look great and of course, asking the standard question "how did you do that?" Remembering the Doug Lisle talk, and words of wisdom from other leaders and fellow travelers, I know better than to think I'm going to convince anyone of anything. So I decided to just have a little fun!!! I said "I just eat lots of potatoes!" Saying that to a (probably miserable) low carber is like waving candy in front of first graders! "What do you eat besides potatoes? That must not be all you eat!" Me: "no...I eat a lot of bananas too. And watermelon." When they asked me more about the amazing potato/banaba/watermelon diet, I just suggested the Starch Solution book for more information. Maybe that is a good promotion to get people interested in the book LOL!

Anyway... I keep having to set aside more clothes. My agreement with husband, who has been down this weight loss path with me many times over the years (and pays for all of my shopping excursions without complaint!), is that I will store at least some of my larger clothes for 1 year. If I am still on this path, then I will donate them. I am also donating a lot of stuff now, and putting some in the basement boxes in the spirit of our agreement. It feels good to be cleaning out the closet and trying to keep only stuff that fits my body today in view. I'm feeling really positive about what I'm doing right now, so already have a few favorite basic things (ie favorite jeans, shorts, and basic tees) in 1 & 2 sizes down. I'm gradually working into the next size down bottoms and tops! It's nice to have a few things at the ready as I get smaller (no shopping emergencies) and it's FANTASTIC to have enough confidence that this program will keep working if I keep working it, to go ahead and invest in some items that don't fit me....YET!

The FIRST thing I did this morning probably should have been exercise, but it wasn't. I baked a big batch of potatoes!

I'm still pathetic on the exercise front. At least I get a lot of activity in my daily life. I don't know how it happens, but especially on week days, I usually end up with 10-15,000 steps on my Fitbit without intentionally "going for a walk." Weekends tend to be more laid back, especially if we are at the river cabin. But then I intentionally go for walks. So I'm not going to beat myself up about it right now. I can do better, but it could also be worse. Beating myself up never got me to exercise more!

Alright - gotta go. I'm in such a good mood today I'm sure it's going to piss somebody off.

[rickfm]

Anyway... I keep having to set aside more clothes.

I've been wearing the same pair of jeans for the past 2 years, even though my weight has gone up and down 30 lbs. I always wear my shirts untucked so when the belly blooms and the pants can't quite be buttoned anymore, no one can see they are only being held up by my belt.

I refuse to buy any new clothes until I'm confident that I can maintain a lower weight... or they just get too threadbare to wear.

I'm in such a good mood today I'm sure it's going to piss somebody off.

[Lizzy_F]

Hi Rick! I can relate to that line of thinking re: clothes. I've certainly spent time in that head space.

I have never before stepped out and bought clothes TWO sizes down, having confidence I will get there. The 12-day program feels truly magical for me. My head space is so completely different now than it used to be. It feels wonderful to feel CONFIDENT about this program. To feel like it can work for me (if I do the work and follow the plan) just like it has worked for so many others. I'm not broken. There is nothing wrong with me - something I always kind of thought in the back of my head - something wrong with me that is NOT wrong with other people, hence they can succeed at this and it will never work for me. Those types of thoughts - even the subtle variety - are gone. I wish I knew precisely what combination of factors allowed me to get here. I think a big part of it is just the In Real Life interactions with so many people for support. Dr. McDougall & Mary, Dr. Lim, Tiffany, Jeff, Dr. Lisle, all of my peers in the program. It's not like there wasn't any support before. I have been a member here forever. And there are a multitude of Facebook groups and all that jazz. But it is definitely different now. I am rocking this thing, and there is NO TURNING BACK.
Please pass the potatoes!

I haven't pissed anyone off yet that I know of, but the day is still young!

[Ruff]

Hi Beth! Just wanted to pop in and say how wonderful it is to read your journal. Its a joy to read how everything is clicking into place for you. So a huge well done, and cheering you on from down here.

[Lizzy_F]

Hi Katie / Ruff!!! I took a look at your testimonial and once I opened that thread - I remember reading it YEARS ago! I was thinking I came here to the forum around 2014, but it must have been 2013. I assume the horrible earthquakes have subsided? I still think that sounds so terrifying!

I feel SO different now - in an awesome way - than I ever did on any type of low carb plan. Is that true for you as well? My body and brain just feel so happy and satisfied with this food and I don't ever remember feeling that way on low carb. Hunger eventually subsided, but it never felt good to me. Just tolerable, until it became intolerable LOL! I now see my husband who has been a low carber for about 9 months now doing what I used to do. Eat his low carb dinner like it's his job, and then go surfing the cupbards for "legal" snacks and treats. Nuts, cheese crisps, etc. And of course this pattern has his weight creeping back up again. When that happened to me in the past, I didn't want to be GAINING weight, so I started skipping "dinner" and just saving up my calories for nuts and cheese. Of course that behavior increased the hunger, and we can all figure out how that story ended! I'm always curious about whether others experienced this, especially other women. If you don't want to talk about that, please don't feel obligated - it's just a curiosity at this point. I won't ever be going back there again! And I'll be standing with a copy of Starch Solution in my hand when husband is fed up with this cycle.

Did you ever write your book? If so, tell me where I can buy it!! If not, I hope you decide to write it one day!

[VegSeekingFit]

Hi Beth!!!

WOW!!! I was reading your "What Has Changed" in 2 months posting... all that I can say is FANTASTIC!!!!! That is quite a list of quality of life improvements. I bet as you continue on, you will just be able to continue to add things to this list. Exciting stuff!!!

Very cool what you wrote about not having a "shopping emergency" and being confident to buy a couple sizes down. YAY!!!! Hope that you have fun picking out new cute clothes as you continue on. Can be very motivating too...

Laughed out loud about the potato / watermelon / banana diet!!!! What a great way to present that!! I have a friend who is "dieting" with a low carb program (completely forget what it is) --- where at least 1 meal / day is from a powder? Anyway, she has lost so far 40 lbs. and wants to lose 10 more. The program that she is on is actually the opposite of what she likes to eat - so there is a bit of "cheating"... I do not know if they rope you in to continue to buy this powder when you are done? Anyway, I have shared with her before about McD .... but low carb...

You mentioned something about a "hungry-full" feeling above. I have had this in the past a few times. I think I've experienced it when I have filled up my stomach on pre-load and not eaten enough of 50/50 plate. If what I am thinking of is what you are describing... Just another possible thought...

I like how you described getting to where you feel CONFIDENT about this program. I am with you on this and NO TURNING BACK (stole from you...).... You mentioned that you are considering precisely the factors that got you to this point. Hope that you share if you muddle through that... For me I would say: 1) prioritization of health, 2) have been practicing and found it can be quite simple, 3) safety net -- there is support if needed. Don't know if any of that resonates with you?

I love reading your journal --- your enthusiasm bounces off the pages and is catching!!! Thank you for sharing!!

Best,
Stephanie