Beyond the 12-Day Program: Beth's Time & Adherence

[squealcat]

Hi Beth ! I think you will like farro ! It is really good ! I cook and use in the morning like oatmeal but you could use instead of rice. now millet ? I have some in my cupboard right now. I want to figure out what to do with it. I have a cornbread recipe that I made in the past that was really good but I want to cook some up and try it some other way since I don't do cornbread right now.

I really like your journal ! Keep up the good work ! We will all work together !

-Marilyn

[JeffN]

Congrats on all your success and efforts you are putting into this. You are really taking the bull by the horn, as they say

This is another area where my awareness has increased (esp. re salt) during the last week. I enjoy listening to what Jeff, Dr. McDougall, and Doug Lisle all have to say about it. Just goes to show that opinions can differ slightly, and yet everyone can be more broadly on the same page.

I read this and was wondering what you mean. Are you saying that John, Doug and I all have differing opinions? Or the same opinions but different than others?

As far as I know, our recommendations are virtually identical

Again, congrats!
Jeff

[Lizzy_F]

Thank you Stepahnie, Marilyn and Jeff for stopping by! I really appreciate the feedback and encouragement!

Jeff - I knew I worded that badly! I was referring to the part of the conversation where you all were talking about you, Dr. McDougall, and Doug disagreeing with Dr. Goldhammer and those who advocate S-S free. I found the comments about what is evidence based and what is not particulary powerful. I haven't specificially heard her discuss her position lately, but at some point, Chef AJ seemed pretty adamant about S-S free. She is one of the instructors at the 12-Day, so I assume everyone gets along in spite of that difference? (She did NOT advocate for S-S free during the McDougall 12-day cooking class). And perhaps her position has changed. I choose to follow Dr. McDougall and his immediate troops to minimize confusion for myself over whatever differences are out there.

Marilyn - thanks for sharing the ways you use farro! I look forward to experimenting with that grain. Let me know what you end up doing with your millet!

Stephanie often times my eyes are way way way bigger than my stomach! I am the only potato eater in my house so I probably don't need to make them 10 at a time, especially when I have also made some other starches! I'm sure I will adjust and settle into a good routine eventually. Better too much than too little cooked starches in the fridge!

[Lizzy_F]

Accountability...

Things I am working on this week:

1. Taking slightly smaller portions as a first serving, then guaging hunger for seconds.
2. Walking daily, and beginning to integrate the Functional Six.

So far, I have not really implemented #1. I really did feel STUFFED after dinner the last 2 nights, and that is not comfortable nor in line with my health goals! So...note to self!

I started doing the first functional six exercise this weekend - chair squats. I am going to keep re-watching a Youtube video I found to maintain awareness of proper form and make sure I am doing them correctly. Today I am going for a walk, then adding planks (well, planks - modified baby version LOL!). The weather is gorgeous this weekend - much cooler than it has been. So I also walked yesterday which was really nice.

I have been eating more variety this week (i.e. some bean burrito meals (corn tortillas) in addition to oatmeal and potato based meals. I have also been eating more fruit than usual (due to over-buying it). I can see how increases in variety of foods tend to increase overall food consumption. So all of my food is on plan, but while I don't weigh or measure any food (and won't!), I can just sense that my consumption is up. I'm sure that will translate to the scale, so I'm getting mentally prepared for that, and thinking of this week as an experiment. I suspect I will decide to cut back the variety once this round of groceries is done. I really am happy with a very simple diet of oats + fruit for breakfast and baked potatoes, veg and fruit for lunch & dinner. And I think a very simple and repetitive meal plan is what will be most helpful in meeting my goals right now. So I look forward to a re-simplification process!

So a little progress, lots of learning, and definitely not perfection!

[JeffN]

Congrats on all your success and efforts you are putting into this. You are really taking the bull by the horn, as they say

This is another area where my awareness has increased (esp. re salt) during the last week. I enjoy listening to what Jeff, Dr. McDougall, and Doug Lisle all have to say about it. Just goes to show that opinions can differ slightly, and yet everyone can be more broadly on the same page.

I read this and was wondering what you mean. Are you saying that John, Doug and I all have differing opinions? Or the same opinions but different than others?

As far as I know, our recommendations are virtually identical

Again, congrats!
Jeff

Jeff - I knew I worded that badly! I was referring to the part of the conversation where you all were talking about you, Dr. McDougall, and Doug disagreeing with Dr. Goldhammer and those who advocate S-S free. I found the comments about what is evidence based and what is not particularly powerful.

Yes, thanks, That is my point. People can say what they want but this whole movement from the start is about being evidence-based, not peoples opinion-based. We have a huge database of evidence going back to 1930 (and even earlier) that draws a pretty clear picture. None of it is based on S-S free. None. Let me repeat that. None. Not that someone cant choose to do it, but we have no evidence for it. And, it creates a huge obstacle for those trying to navigate the parts that are evidence based


Sadly, many people today, especially on social media, who have no credentials, qualified education or professional clinical experience are promoting unscientific concepts as science- based. The S-S free diet is one of them and unfortunately it does more harm then good because it sets up an unnecessary daily hurdle on our simple path to success and can feed into the ego-trap.

Think about this……

- The originator of the SOS movement, Dr Goldhamer, who is credentialed and licensed and has decades of clinical experience and qualifications, admits there is no evidence for it and unnecessary for most people. In addition, the person who has worked at True North since its inception, co wrote the book on the Pleasure Trap, is also credentialed and licensed and has decades of clinical experience including in food addiction, Dr Lisle, doesn't promote it.

- In his November 2017 Newsletter, Dr McDougall, after discussing why he is uniquely qualified to do what he does, made this point

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2017nl/jul/simple.htm

“In contrast, many popular healthcare "gurus" have had no formal education in the potentially life-threatening matters of your health. Almost as troubling are the credentialed healthcare/diet advisors who provide advice based solely on reading other people's research articles. The relevance of their guidance must be placed in the context that many of them haven't touched a patient since their primary dietetic or medical training.”

- While I may seem relaxed, casual, and humorous at times, everything I teach during my classes and presentations, tightly aligns with evidenced-based science. Because of this, everything I teach can be challenged and subsequently supported by evidence. I have come to this position after a life dedicated to my field, the teaching of which is my craft. So while I may appear nonchalant, there is actually nothing casual about the science supporting my work. Quite often, people don’t notice subtle differences in the accuracy and integrity of the information presented or the presenter, but after over three decades of research and study, I always notice them.

Remember, we promote an evidence based program and present to you the evidence. Its clear in our materials that we are not a no S-S program and allow for the use of S-S.

I I choose to follow Dr. McDougall and his immediate troops to minimize confusion for myself over whatever differences are out there.

You are on the right track. Congrats on your success so far.

In Health
Jeff

[rickfm]

Hi Beth,

I'm also a returning McDougaller. I related a lot to your introduction. Sober nearly 3 years, myself. Sick and tired of being stuck in that "obese" BMI category.

It's interesting to hear about your experience with salt. I do try to be moderate with it, but I use plain old Morton salt regularly. Ever since reading Dr. McDougall's newsletter on the subject, when I first discovered this place so many years ago, I just decided not to worry about it.

https://drmcdougall.com/misc/2008nl/aug/salt.htm

I may eventually reconsider that once I've reach my weight loss goals, but for now... please pass the salt.

[JeffN]

If you read the The Starch Solution, and watch the latest presentation, the slide now says, the McDougall Program is a low sodium diet.

You can see that here starting at 49.24

https://youtu.be/ZzCU9V27UkI?t=2963

Here is a screen shot.


I discuss this in several threads.

While there are some minor differences, our recommendations are now virtually identical.

In Health
Jeff

[rickfm]

If you read the The Starch Solution, and watch see his latest presentation, the slide now says, the McDougall Program is a low sodium diet.

Ah, okay. I knew that newsletter was old and have been wondering if the opinion had changed. The Starch Solution came out after I was familiar with the McDougall plan and I guess I didn't feel a need to read it.

I shall have to remedy that.

[Lizzy_F]

Hi Rick! Sounds like we have some things in common - being sick and tired of being sick and tired is a big one! Congratulations on your 3 years of sobriety. Good for you tackling these other health issues sooner rather than later in your recovery journey! The Starch Solution is a great read as are all of Dr McDougall’s books! The Pleasure Trap is also good! (Goldhammer & Lisle). I look forward to getting to know you better on this journey!

Jeff I just DOUBLE DOG DARE anyone to pry my salt shaker out of my hands!!!! In all seriousness I can totally relate to what you said about restrictive opinions, which are not science based, creating problems for people. I believe I was a casualty of that very thing in the past, causing me to attempt being TOO restrictive and subsequently (and quickly!) falling off. This time I’m keeping my Dr McDougall blinders on! Thank you for taking the time to clarify all these things. It’s so clear you care a lot about our collective success and that is so priceless! It makes this forum invaluable to me! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

[Lizzy_F]

Rick! I also meant to say that I love your avatar! Steamed cabbage is my absolute favorite go-to veg right now!

[Ruff]

Hi Beth...and Jeff Novick if he is still here.

The great salt debate. I have read carefully about salt and sugar in Starch solution and also listened to DrMcD on YouTube. I am a long time mcdougaler and I add salt to the surface of my food as recommended rather than cook with it. I dont always salt my food though, just when I feel it needs a little extra pep. I use a local New Zealand south island sea salt to support local. Adding it this way makes one very aware of it, hiding it in cooking doesn't.

Sugar. I find I tend to over eat sugar, so dont use it on a day to day basis. It simpler for me. What I do do, is eat it on special occasions. This makes them really special. For example, it is our 37th wedding anniversary on the 20th July, and one of my enjoyable tasks on this storm bound day, is to sit in front of the fire and fine a really nice Mary McD pudding to have on the day! (dessert in American lingo!)

Over the 10 years I have been doing this things have got simpler and simpler, and I keep my focus more and more narrowed. I used to search for new exciting recipes, and watch other plant based people on YouTube or listen on podcasts. Now I dont do any of that. We tend to eat the same meals over and over, with seasonal variations, and taking our garden into account (right now I have bottles and bottles of home stewed apples...) but SS, basic common or garden SS, is the way we eat, live and have our being! And I dont worry about anything else. I have a life to live since DrMcD gave it me back, and I can never ever thank him enough for that. And he did it for the price of one paperback! (Starch Solution of course)

[JeffN]

Over the 10 years I have been doing this things have got simpler and simpler, and I keep my focus more and more narrowed. I used to search for new exciting recipes, and watch other plant based people on YouTube or listen on podcasts. Now I dont do any of that. We tend to eat the same meals over and over, with seasonal variations, and taking our garden into account (right now I have bottles and bottles of home stewed apples...) but SS, basic common or garden SS, is the way we eat, live and have our being! And I dont worry about anything else. I have a life to live since DrMcD gave it me back, and I can never ever thank him enough for that. And he did it for the price of one paperback! (Starch Solution of course)

Sounds like the natural ongoing process of learning, living and incorporating the program into your way of life. Not for it to become your life but to give it back to you.

Congrats!!

[Lizzy_F]

Ruff you are truly an inspiration to me. I love reading about the evolution of your journey, and how simple and straight forward you keep things. Right now, I need constant reminders to "keep it simple" because I am a person who can over-complicate anything! So thank you for posting you message to Jeff here where I wouldn't miss it, because it has TONS of value to me!

[Trinity]

Hello all. I do remember that Chef AJ had mentioned that she was salt-free anyway, her whole life, because her father had heart issues and after he was diagnosed her whole family was salt-free. I remember in particular that at some point growing up a friend gave her a pretzel and she felt like she was drowning in salt with one taste (something like that). Also wasn’t she a vegan dessert chef when she was still an overweight vegan? So I’m sure she feels like SHE can’t eat sugar. But that doesn’t necessarily apply to anyone else.

Some things I can eat without salt and some I can’t. And anyone who doesn’t like savory oatmeal, I ask you to just give oatmeal with salsa 1 try. I used to eat this in hotels for breakfast and as I tell my husband, don’t knock it till you try it! Not that he’s ever tried it. I can’t remember who it was who said they couldn’t do savory oatmeal but I just wanted to mention it as you all were taking about salt.

[rickfm]

...one of my enjoyable tasks on this storm bound day, is to sit in front of the fire and fine a really nice Mary McD pudding to have on the day! (dessert in American lingo!)

I remember watching a British show once, there was a restaurant scene with people eating and talking, the waiter came up to check on the meals and someone said, "May we see the pudding menu, please?"

I thought that was one of the most bizarre things I'd ever heard. What the heck was a "pudding" menu.

I ask you to just give oatmeal with salsa 1 try.

I season my oatmeal with turmeric and black pepper, but that's along with ceylon cinnamon and dark brown sugar (yeah, I know... it's a guilty pleasure). But hey, I like oats, and I like salsa. I'll have to give it a go.