My stomach really hurts.

[Shari in MN]

Hi,

I have had a stomach ache for almost two weeks now. I am having no bowel trouble, and no acid reflux. I've had this in the past and have had many tests done but they could not find anything so they gave me prevacid. This does work, but I want to try to fix it. The pain is in the upper abdomen right between the ribs. I can't help wonder if it is something I am eating, but I can not figure out what. I was even wondering if it could be CD, but there is not history in my family of this. Also the only symptom is pain.

I just read this in the HSI newsletter. This is a quote from Dr Allen Spreen.

"The high-gluten grains are within the mnemonic BROW (Barley, Rye, Oat, Wheat). When completely unrefined, these grains in and of themselves are not the problem. It's when sensitive individuals run into them that trouble can occur.

"Constant exposure to one food can cause a person to become 'sensitized.' This is most common in the case of wheat, since wheat is absolutely everywhere. If a person craves grains, cereals, breads, etc., or eats them every day, I often test them by avoiding the potential offending agent for 7 days. Sometimes the results are remarkable."

How do you define refined? I do eat oatmeal every day. It is the old fashioned Quaker oats. I also have bread occasionally. It is usually home made whole wheat. These grains are ground, but not really refined. Could it be the oatmeal?

Any other ideas would be helpful. I am also thinking about trying Super Enzymes from Twin Labs. It is supposed to contain digestive enzymes and acid to create the correct environment in the stomach. Anyone ever use these with success?

Thanks for the help.

Shari

[Mallow]

A few people at the McDougall live-in program had stomach aches, they had to cut back drastically on their intake of raw food, until their body could get used to it. Is the pain in the center of your abdomen, or on the right hand side?

[groundhogg]

I think you might want to ask yourself if the pain happened suddenly with dietary change.

Are you McDougalling? For how long? Did you start this 2 weeks ago when the pain began?

And pain is the ONLY symptom? Is the pain constant, or just certain times of the day, or after eating, etc.? Is it a stab, or a cramp, or what does it feel like?

I'm not too up on gallbladder, but some here have experience with that...seems like it does cause pain.

If you can isolate the exact nature of this with a good description, maybe you can figure out the cause.

As to the glutinous grains (BROW), they do cause many people problems...but usually gut pain alone isn't one that you hear about much (although that certainly wouldn't entirely rule the possibility out, as symptoms seem to vary widely).

I would make a detailed list of how/when/ exactly what this/these symptoms are and compare that with how you've been eating these past 2 weeks. Maybe even keep a detailed food and symptom journal and see if anything makes any sense.

You might want to e-mail Dr. McDougall with more specifics and see if he can give you any possibilities to consider.

[Shari in MN]

Hi,

Thanks for replying.

The pain cannot be from raw food because with the exception of fruit and baby carrots I'm not really eating any. I'm also not very good at drinking water.

I have done 6 months of low carb starting in Jan. In August I gradually went from Low carb to Mc Dougall. I have been pretty much doing this full time since September. Once a week I eat pretty much what everyone else eats because we have a family dinner. Sometimes I only eat the vegetables (usually with butter), but if it is a caserol, then I eat the whole thing. I sometimes munch on non plan granola (home made) and shredded wheat.

I typically eat oatmeal or a mix of brown rice, grape nuts and oatmeal with raisins for breakfast. Lunch or dinner either is soup or a baked potatoe and vegetable. I will have a piece of bread usually with lunch, but sometimes as a snack in the afternoon. The only food that is new is soy milk, but soy itself is not new because I ate that while doing low carb.

The pain is not constant. It is an ache. There also feels like presure or a stick is under my right rib left hand side. I never wake up with the pain. It hurts more when standing than sitting.

The last time I went to the Dr. they could not even think of any more tests to run. They were so sure they knew what it was (gallbladder) that when it wasn't they were stumped. The only other difference besides my eating is I am walking 1 hour 3 times a week.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Shari

[AnnaS]

we had that sounds similar--my DH had a bad pain in his chest that really worried him a lot. It was also kind of under his rib. The doctor determined (I'm not sure how) that he had some injured cartilage there. This was possibly the result of accidentally banging himself in the chest with a garden tool, or it may have been strained some other way. He was given a muscle relaxant for a short period to give it a chance to start healing. It did finally heal, but it took quite a long time.

Perhaps you could ask your doctor if this is a possibility? It sounds like they've ruled out the obvious suspects, like gallbladder. If it's something like this, then relaxing, gently stretching, slow breathing exercises might be the sort of thing that would help. In my DH's case, some heat rub on the skin seemed to help.

It's very frustrating not to have a diagnosis, I'm sure.

[erin]

i can't eat raw carrots because they give me horrible stomach pains. try going without them for a week.

~erin

[Anne]

Glad that I'm not the only person who can't eat raw carrots!

They give me terrible stomach aches. Shari, you might want to try giving up raw carrots as a simple test.

[50something]

Did the doctor check for an enlarged liver? I have fatty liver and at times have an ache under my ribs on the left side. An ultrasound found the fatty liver. I am just starting McDougall and walking to lose weight. That is supposed to correct the condition.

[50something]

I meant on my right side.

[Shari in MN]

They did an ultra sound for the gallbladder test and said the blood work for my liver was fine. I am assuming that that means my liver should be fine. Right? As far as I can tell the only organs in that area are the large intestine and the liver.

It seems to be hurting more since I started this WOE. Could the walking be causing it. The last time when it was really bad like this I just started pilates. Every time I restart pilates it starts to hurt, but I can do yoga. I am doing good things so I should be feeling better.

Shari

[50something]

The doctor examined my abdomen and said she could feel my liver was enlarged. Thats when she called for an ultrasound which showed a fatty liver.

This sounds pretty silly to ask but could you be having lots of gas from all the new fiber?

[Mallow]

Have you considered doing a liver cleanse? My liver hurts when I do this diet too, and I do a liver cleanse every month or so because of it. Sometimes, I get lazy and don't want to do a liver cleanse, so I simply have a fatty meal and an ex-lax. My twin sister has to have a minimum of 5 grams of fat per meal, or she gets too much liver pain on a nonfat diet. She's had gallstone issues in the past, and doesn't do many cleanses.

If you want to give it a try, simply try eating a meal with fat. If your condition changes, you'll know it might be related. If the pain gets better, it could be only slight blockage of gallstones. If it gets really bad, you may know it's definitely gallstone related, and may need to do a liver cleanse.

[Pumpkin]

Have you considered doing a liver cleanse? My liver hurts when I do this diet too, and I do a liver cleanse every month or so because of it.

Mallow, I don't think it's so much that it is not "popular." I wouldn't tell someone categorically not to consider this, but I'd want to provide them with some additional information.

One question I have is: how can you possibly know that you have pain from your liver if you have not had a medical diagnosis? From what I've read, potential causes of liver pain are not that common, and tend to be pretty serious. The gall bladder is a separate organ, and gallstones or gallbladder disease can definitely cause severe pain, but it's a different organ and not directly related to the liver. I know abdominal pain can be difficult to diagnosis even for trained physicians... I'm wondering how you can be so sure you have pain from the liver, and not from the gall bladder, or an ulcer, or gas, or one of many other possible causes?

Also, there has been some credible research regarding the claims made by purveyors of "natural cleanses", which have been found to be bogus, especially the ones claiming expulsion of gallstones. A lot of times people get really dicey information, including a lot of nonsense and pseudoscience, from sellers and distributors of such "cleansing systems," so caution is in order. There is a ton of information on the internet both pro and con. I'd advise anyone thinking of using a cleanse to first educate themselves very thoroughly, as I've seen credible info indicating the possibility of actual harm possible in some cases.

On the other hand, conventional medical science often discounts herbal and non-drug remedies that actually work. I just think we all need to be kinda careful about (1) possibly diagnosing our problems incorrectly, thereby spending time and money treating conditions that don't actually exist and ignoring conditions that do (and could be dangerous, such as an ulcer), and (2) using "natural" products that don't work and simply waste our money, or that keep us from finding a more effective cure, or that can actually cause harm.

[groundhogg]

Home test for ulcer:

Go hungry...skip a whole meal.

Eat one raw apple on an empty stomach.

Wait 20 minutes...if you have an ulcer, it'll HURT...should sting and burn inside your stomach, high up on the abdomen.

This little trick was shared wtih me a long, long time ago by a physician's assisitant friend of mine who took care of a few mountain clincis down in the Ky.

[Shari in MN]

Thanks again for all the ideas. It seems that the most logical has to do with the fiber and the gas. I am basing this on the following.

1 Can't be the liver because the liver is functioning normally.

2 Can't be the gallbladder because I can eat fat and two I had two gallbladder tests and both came back negative.

3 can't be and ulcer because the test said it wasn't one, but I will still try the apple test to see what happens.

Cant be raw carrots because I ate them while eating low carb and there was no pain and I don't eat that many.

I've stopped drinking soy milk as of this morning. I started the stomach enzymes Thursday night. I am in less pain now than I was on Thursday, but I ate very badly today because two of my kids won a writing contest and they had a luncheon.

Soneone said the gas could be caused by all the fiber I am eating. If this is true will my body adjust or do I need to change something in the way I am eating?

Thanks again for the help,

Shari