May 2020 McDougall MWL Weigh-In Thread

[Mark Cooper]

By my count, 34 participants reported for our third May 2020 MWL weigh-in! If I neglected to include anyone, or you notice an error in the tally, please let me know (via PM so we can keep the thread as tidy as possible, or in a post here if you cannot PM).

Here are the results for the third Friday in May:

Week ending 5/15/2020: 34 participants reported a total loss of -42.70 pounds
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Zoey +0.60
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Total gains: +0.60
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NO CHANGE / MAINTAIN / STARTING OUT
Carolw 0.00
Laurag 0.00
Mimiljd 0.00
Moonlight 0.00
Pootsy 0.00
Rlechols 0.00
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SaraC9 -0.10
Kirstykay -0.20
Ejg -0.30
Abe -0.70
jasonrhoads1 -0.80
NomeOslo -0.80
Miss Kim -1.00
Rufus_519 -1.00
Tinathescreamer -1.10
Josietheschnauzer -1.20
Courtneywagasky -1.40
Lucas -1.40
VGuzman -1.40
JaBee -1.50
Judy_Bell -1.50
Tian-De -1.80
Hope410 -2.00
Lakegirl -2.00
Wstokes -2.00
Goal140 -2.20
Abible -2.40
Chaz01 -2.40
Belana -2.60
NateKruse -2.60
Lmggallagher -2.80
Noella -3.00
Squealcat -3.10
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Total losses: -43.30
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Cumulative group loss for May 2020: 123.30 pounds
Average loss for week ending May 15: 1.26 pounds
Cumulative group loss for January 2020: 384.15 pounds
Cumulative group loss for February 2020: 96.60 pounds
Cumulative group loss for March 2020: 60.10 pounds
Cumulative group loss for April 2020: 218.00 pounds

Next Weigh-In is on Friday, May 22, 2020.


My compliments to all our participants! I feel very privileged to have the opportunity to travel this path with such a dedicated, thoughtful and supportive group of people!

I think the questions arising this week in relation to fruit perhaps might benefit from further discussion. Clearly, Dr. McDougall has sufficient experience with patients who need to pay attention to their fruit consumption; hence the advice to minimize fruits is included in the MWL guidelines.

Keep fruits to one or two a day. Fruit is largely simple sugar and people can easily eat 10 to 20 servings a day without a guilty thought – after all, fruit is healthy. In truth, fruits should be thought of as healthy desserts, made largely of sugar and water (but with lots of wholesome nutrients). Vegetable juices (carrot, celery, tomato, etc.) are only slightly less detrimental to your weight loss than fruit juices. Dried fruits are even bigger "calorie bombs." They are concentrated into a small volume by the dehydration processes, so you can eat 20 dried apples in the time it would take you to eat 2 whole fresh apples.

Let me be clear - I don't disagree with any aspect of that guideline. I do, however, think our group discussion can be aided by some nuance and perspective. I can imagine that overconsumption of fruit may very well be an issue for some of us, and I don't want to discourage anyone from being honest with themselves and attending to that. In that same spirit, I would ask that we all take a thorough, informed and honest look at our adherence to all 10 points of the MWL 10-Point Checklist. Practicing this way of eating requires a significant expenditure of dedicated effort, and it feels important to me that we direct our efforts where they can provide the most leverage. Are calorie-dense and highly processed foods still making an appearance among your food choices? What about animal foods? Or high-fat plant foods? Have you been drinking your calories? Again, I point this out not to discourage anyone from giving needed attention to their fruit intake, but out of concern that some of us may be fretting about cherries or apples, while still consuming cookies, crackers, cake, &c. In regard to more calorie dilute foods, I think Jeff made a very important point in this thread; one worth generally keeping in mind.

In the end, if someone has a tendency to overeat on a MWL approved food, then switch it for another one but don't not eat if one is truly hungry. For some people it may be grapes and bananas or even brown rice, but not apples, grapefruit or potatoes.

As always, do the best you can to be totally honest with yourself about your current efforts and what you are capable of achieving. Think about your overall pattern of behavior, and whether it is congruent with your personal goals. Ultimately, we are all working to build a way of life for ourselves - a way of life that supports our health and well-being, and that bolsters our energy, enthusiasm, and happiness. If we are fortunate, we can inhabit that wonderful way of life for the longest duration of time possible. Developing a broad understanding of the concepts we discuss here can seem daunting and involved, as illustrated in this discussion of satiety and calorie density.

It is important to always discuss satiety per calorie so we always have an equal/standardized comparison and in regard to short term (~1 hour) vs long term (~3-4 hours) satiety. While fruits and veggies have high short term satiety, they don’t have high long term satiety

Water as part of food is included as in soups, oatmeal etc. where as liquid calories as in juice, non-dairy milk isn’t.

There are many factors to satiety that are more like finer details such as chewing, fiber/kcal, %fat, texture, degree of processing etc that matter when comparing foods of equal or similar calorie density.

If some of you are interested in taking a "deep dive" into the numerous interesting and complicated factors that contribute to Passive Overconsumption: The Unintended Intake of Excess Calories, I highly recommend the following threads:

Finding The Sweet Spot: Balancing Calorie Density, Nutrient Density & Satiety
Question about Ramen noodles?
3-5 lbs of food a day?
food really unlimited??

The Jeff Novick, RD subforum is filled with fascinating and valuable information on a seemingly infinite number of topics, and the answers to many questions are contained therein.

If further study seems interesting and enjoyable to you, by all means pursue those interests. Conversely, if that feels like an insurmountable burden that you don't want to tackle - YOU ARE IN LUCK! You can reap great benefit from the collective and cumulative knowledge and experience of Dr. McDougall and Jeff Novick; their recommendations come from a thorough review and understanding of the scientific literature combined with decades of clinical experience. That is the beauty of the MWL 10-Point Checklist and the MWL guidelines - they have distilled all that knowledge and experience into a set of recommendations that are clear and actionable. Our task is simply to take action in our own lives, informed by those recommendations.

I wish you all the best for a wonderful week to come!

[jasonrhoads1]

Hello Everyone

I tried to post earlier, but I was not able to get onto the site.
previous week 215.4 lbs
Weight change -0.8 in lbs now 214.6
Points from the MWL Checklist where I succeeded this week: 1, 2, 3, 10
Points from the MWL Checklist that need greater attention: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

General impressions & observations / resources to share / sources of excitement / requests for input & support:
So this week has been the least amount that I have lost. I am still happy with the progression. There were 2 events this week, Mother's day and our wedding anniversary, that I did not follow MWL for 2 meals. The first one was eggs benedict, family tradition that needs to be remade, no meat but lots of eggs involved and vegan butter. This meal was consumed at dinner, so I followed MWL for the beginning of the day. The second meal was from a vegan fast food, for lunch, called Plant Powered fast food. I did go for a salad with fake chicken, the kids had french fries so I had a few of that and my wife and I shared a chocolate milkshake.....wow I felt it after that one. I didn't even want to eat dinner 5 hours later....

My parents are starting to get more on board. They do typically eat pescatarian, but they eat a lot of calorie dense food and add in oil to their cooking, but because we have been visiting them more, they have started to use less oil as well.

Hope everyone is well
~Jason

[Zoey]

Zoey - If your scale had been stolen this week, and you couldn't weigh-in, what would your assessment of the week have been?

What a great question. Thanks, Mark. I would have given myself a good assessment before that weigh-in.

But... considering some of the readings you provided us with, I do think I may have found the culprit. It was easy for me to see my obvious mistakes. I shouldn't have had the wine, the cake, and the nuts on Mother's Day. But I didn't think twice about grazing from the fruit tray all day long. And passively overconsuming it all week, actually.
So since I feel I have all the obvious things under control, I'll focus on the not-so-obvious in the coming week.

Thank you so much!

[Mark Cooper]

jasonrhoads1 - How wonderful that your parents have started to make some changes in behavior because of your experience practicing this way of eating! I'm glad you are happy with your progress. It sounds like those deviations from MWL perhaps provided some useful feedback about the effect those more calorie rich and processed foods can have.

Zoey - Sounds good! I'm sure by continuing to apply that thoughtful and considered focus, you'll make progress toward your goals.

[moonlight]

,,,, thanks to all of you for sharing and inspiring. I'm going to need it this week, as I'm feeling so hopeless at the moment.

Hi Zoey! I hope you are feeling better today. Just try to focus on 10 point checklist. Maybe make a special soup to have before meals this week. I'm planning to make gazpacho today!

You've got this!!

[mreneestokes]

Hi,
I didn't get to weigh in on Friday, but my weight is 181. I am going back to work part time next week and looking forward to putting more mental energy into the diet and being on a more regular schedule.
Thanks for being here.
Michele

[Mark Cooper]

mreneestokes - Hi! How has it been going for you with the MWL 10-Point Checklist? Have you made a start putting the guidelines into practice in your daily routine?

[josietheschnauzer]

Thank you, Zoey for your encouragement. The Virtual race is the "Great Virtual Race Across Tennessee" --it goes from May 1 to August 31, travels from SW Tennessee to NE Tennessee, and is 1000K or 634 miles. You can google it and see the webpage. These virtual races are an upside to the pandemic we are in. Everyone could make up their own personal Virtual Race to keep on track with exercising everyday. For example, since I live in Washington, DC, I could do my own virtual walk/run from Washington, DC to Philadelphia, 139 miles, over a time period that is comfortable for me. For me, it is a good way to put exercise as a priority. Plus it turns out to be fun! And, I never have to leave home!

[AmandaSue]

Hello! I am newly registered, today! I would love to join in on the MWL Weigh-In Thread starting this Friday. I started the program on Friday (5-15-20) with my husband. We have been vegan for years, but my weight has not stopped increasing! I have 102 pounds to lose at this point. I had been pretty reluctant to start the McDougall program, but after reading the MWL book, it all finally clicked! I guess I was finally ready to hear it. I read the first post and have reviewed the recommended material (checklist and guidelines). I'm looking forward to diving in to the other resources posted!

[Lakegirl]

Mark...thanks for your thoughts. It is so great to get feedback from you, and your references from Jeff as well. It helps both with the theory behind the 10 points, as well as specific advice...like that recipe for dressing/sauce made from beans. I’m making it tonight with cannellini beans (no salt added), and I’m ordering some butter beans online - have never tried them! Thank you again for the follow up.

And Zoey....hope you have an especially good week most of all in the enjoyment of spring. Healthy delicious food will be the fuel to power that great week. and thank you for your words of encouragement - for all of us.

See you next time,

Lakegirl

[Lakegirl]

Mark...one more thing. You asked about what was the difficulty for me in avoiding bread. I’ve thought about it and think it relates most of all to the chewiness of the texture of the particular type of bread that I like (a farmhouse style, sourdough) - both plain and toasted. And also I do like to support a small locally owned bakery. To address that this week, I’m going to try baking both a Yukon gold potato and a Japanese sweet potato. Slice both of them the long way, like “toast”, then air fry it till chewy. That way I will have several slices on hand. Hope that doesn’t over-process my food too much, but I think in the overall picture it will work to provide a chewiness that might be a nice substitute for bread, as well as an accompaniment to a soup/salad. For the sourness I like lemon/lemon zest and salt free blends or herbs, dried or fresh on just about everything. I’m sure I will also have the potatoes baked or steamed as well, as they are just a veggie I like any which way. To continue to support the local bakery, she also makes soups, and said she could/would make a no-salt vegan one for me. I’ll let you know next check-in how it goes. Enjoy your week!

- Lakegirl

[jan_npr]

Helloooooo from Nova Scotia! Jan (and Matt) here.

We are jumping into this thread now, well me officially, and he is my oh so supportive (normal body weight) McDougall partner.

Still need to more carefully read through the guidelines but I see Friday is official weigh-in day. Since we are starting TODAY I just want to record somewhere that my start weight is 171 lbs (I'm 5'5.5"). That's a little blip above my more steady set point of 169 but that's because I had a weekend of ..... well, you know. I've been a "fat vegan" for a long time. Matt's start weight is 170 at 5'11.5". It's going to be a biggie for him to give up his toast and nut butter but he wants to shed a few pounds himself. He also wants to give me my best shot at this by having certain foods out of the house. For now. He has committed to this until the end of June, with a day off for good behaviour on a milestone birthday. I will also be taking that day off, for his birthday meal. My commitment is to stick with MWL until my own birthday on September 24. Is it reasonable to think I might get down to my goal weight of 134 lbs by then?

We both attended the 10 day McDougall program (hi Jeff!) in January/February 2019. Definitely got off track with pandemic fears but now realize that there will probably never be a better time for me to really give this my all to get into a healthy weight range. No excuses about eating out and entertaining. This is really a golden opportunity and I'm grabbing it.

All of the non-compliant food is boxed up and put on high shelves. I have made an MWL recipe binder and put away all of my other cookbooks except for Straight Up Food that has many good MWL recipes.

Looking forward to starting every day here, reading and writing. HELLO EVERYONE!!!

A QUESTION: I have read the the current guidelines, and the 2005 McDougall newsletter as suggested. In that newsletter corn tortillas are mentioned as okay on the program. But I think that I have seen here somewhere that they are not allowed. Is that correct? NO corn tortillas?

[Mark Cooper]

AmandaSue - Hello and welcome to the group! I'm glad you are feeling like MWL has "clicked" for you! Feel free to post if questions arise.

Lakegirl - That is great! I hope you enjoy the dressing! Let us know how your experiments with the potatoes / sweet potatoes work out. Something to keep in mind (generally speaking) the more a method of preparation tends to "dry out" a food (removing water), the greater degree to which the calorie density of that particular food is raised and the less satiating the result will be.

Yes, all these "gadgets" can be used along with the principles of calorie density but the best cooking methods to preserve calorie density are water-based like steaming, boiling, water sautéing. This doesn't mean you can't microwave, bake, broil, roast, etc but those methods all dry out your food. Some drying will have little to no impact on calorie density, but eventually it can increase the calorie density to a point that matters (boiled potatoes to crispy potato chips).

Jeff discusses these considerations in some detail in this thread on Homemade Potato Chips.

It depends on how thick you slice them and how crisp you make them. The thinner they are and the crisper they are, the drier they will be. This would increase the calorie density as increased water content is the main factor lowering calorie density.

Many people make them because they like the crispness and the crunch and, without realizing it (as you have seen), that because of their increased calorie density, they are more likely to trigger the pleasure trap.

There is a way you can tell, though it takes some work. Weigh the potatoes before you cook them and then weigh them afterwards. The calories would be about the same but the difference in weight would be the water loss and would increase the calorie density accordingly

For instance,

A raw potato is about 350 cal/lb
A boiled potato is about 395 cal/lnb
A baked potato is about 422 cal/lb

As you can see, the more we cook it, and the drier it gets, the more the calorie density goes up. The difference in these numbers (350-422) will not matter. However, slice them thin and cook them crisp, and, as you saw, the calorie density can go up to 1500 cal/lb and more.

The thinner they are, and the crisper you cook them, the drier they are (as cooking decreases water content) & the more likely they are to be in the range you saw at the Pritikin website.

This is why when I make them, I slice them very thick, about 3/8" or more and just lightly brown them on each side under a broiler. This keeps them moist and chewy but lower in calorie density. I call them Chubby Chips.

Here is the recipe and a picture of them...

https://www.facebook.com/JeffNovickRD/p ... 25/?type=1

In Health
Jeff

I can personally attest that the Chubby Chips (the linked recipe) are delicious! I think it is absolutely fantastic that you have found a way to continue to support that community business in a fashion that is also congruent with your dietary goals!

jan_npr - Welcome! I'm glad you and Matt have decided to participate in the group! I would request that if you both intend to participate in the group reports and weigh-ins, that Matt please register for an account and post separate reports for Friday weigh-ins; that would seem to be the most effective way to proceed. In regard to a reasonable rate of weight loss, from my perspective, it is usually best to focus on making your best possible effort to consistently institute the behaviors described in the MWL 10-Point Checklist, and the weight loss will result (at an appropriate rate based on our level of adherence).

Our goal is for you to learn the program, enjoy the food and change your lifestyle. The average weight loss at the McDougall 10-Day Live-in Program is 3.5 lbs in 7 days; the first week is when the majority of people have their largest weekly weight loss. The average over time is about 1% of your current weight.

It sounds like you are making a good start - keeping troublesome foods out of the house is a great tactic. Corn tortillas are relatively calorie dense at ~1000 calories / lb, and are not recommended under the current updated MWL guidelines.

[jan_npr]

Thank-you Mark!

[Zoey]

Hi Zoey! I hope you are feeling better today. Just try to focus on 10 point checklist. Maybe make a special soup to have before meals this week. I'm planning to make gazpacho today!

You've got this!!

Moonlight, thanks, I am feeling better today. (virtual hugs, and virtual gazpacho sharing!)