Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

I don't follow the mainstream media, mainstream studies, and mainstream nutritionists anymore and I just follow the traditional diets. The only adjustment I have made is to eliminate animal products which are now more polluted than in the past and just rely on vitamin b12 supplements daily.

I think Dr Mc Dougal is right.
It does feel like diets that include fat, animal products, grass fed beef, pork, etc are becoming more popular.
I am reading stuff and meeting people all the time promoting these foods. If it gets repeated enough it becomes a fact.


I just read this today

Step 1: Forget Low-Fat Diets

Forget Low Fat!Low fat everything has been the craze now for decades and look around. What has that wonderful bit of advice done for the bodies you see? We're fatter, sicker, and more addicted to sugar and carbs than any other time in history. And, we're passing these habits to our kids.

Fats are not to be feared – they're to be embraced. They do not make you fat; rather, they help your body regenerate your power hormones. Testosterone, the 'strength' hormone, for example, is the direct result of cholesterol and dietary fat intake. That's right: "Cholesterol" isn't a dirty word! Your body needs dietary fat and cholesterol in order to produce ANY AND ALL vital hormones.

People on low fat diets look drawn, gaunt, and weak. They are often sick, sometimes to the point of literally breaking down. And, they can never just enjoy eating out. Every meal and every gram must be accounted for. Do you really think this will make you younger? Of course not... it will worry you to death if it doesn't kill you first!

veggiesusie wrote:I think Dr Mc Dougal is right.
It does feel like diets that include fat, animal products, grass fed beef, pork, etc are becoming more popular.
I am reading stuff and meeting people all the time promoting these foods. If it gets repeated enough it becomes a fact.


I just read this today

Step 1: Forget Low-Fat Diets

Forget Low Fat!Low fat everything has been the craze now for decades and look around. What has that wonderful bit of advice done for the bodies you see? We're fatter, sicker, and more addicted to sugar and carbs than any other time in history. And, we're passing these habits to our kids.

Fats are not to be feared – they're to be embraced. They do not make you fat; rather, they help your body regenerate your power hormones. Testosterone, the 'strength' hormone, for example, is the direct result of cholesterol and dietary fat intake. That's right: "Cholesterol" isn't a dirty word! Your body needs dietary fat and cholesterol in order to produce ANY AND ALL vital hormones.

People on low fat diets look drawn, gaunt, and weak. They are often sick, sometimes to the point of literally breaking down. And, they can never just enjoy eating out. Every meal and every gram must be accounted for. Do you really think this will make you younger? Of course not... it will worry you to death if it doesn't kill you first!

"Low fat everything has been the craze now for decades and look around."

Hah, so easy to refute that statement a 3rd grader could slam dunk it. Low fat has not been a 'craze' for a very long time.

My mother has a subscription to Time. A good friend of mine posted the cover picture on her Facebook page and I wanted to read this article. But I must admit my first reaction was "What are the meat and dairy industries paying for this?"
Naturally, I wasn't surprised by what I read. I expected this article to "glorify" eating meat and dairy and fat and it did. But for those of us McDougallers, we know better don't we?
This article reminded me of a DVD we have at home done by none other than ta-da Jeff Novick! Well, we really loved his take on our low-fat dieting in the 1970-80-s if I remember my decades correctly that he mentioned. Anyway Jeff said we NEVER ate low-fat during that period. Yes, according to his research we did lower our consumption of beef, BUT WE UPPED our consumption of chicken and fish! Hello? So beef is high in fat and cholesterol and chicken and fish are not? Who's fooling who here?
What got me about this article is the picture on page 33. On the top of the page is listed the products we've gotten fewer calories from since 1970. And what's mentioned? 1) Whole milk--down 78% 2) refined white sugar--down 35% 3) beef--down 29% 4) eggs--down 21% 5) butter--down 8% 6) vegetables--down 3%. This list is okay. But take note what's at the bottom of their list.
According to this list we're now getting a WHOLE LOT MORE CALORIES FROM THESE FOODS. And what are those foods? 1) High fructose corn syrup---up 8,853% 2) corn products---up 198% 3) skin milk---up 129% 4) chicken---up 112% 5) turkey---up 102% 6) added fats and oils---up 67%. WHOA...So we've upped our sugar intake, milk, chicken, turkey, and added fats and oils. Hello again? WE'RE STILL EATING HIGH FAT FOODS!!!
According to Jeff's lecture we've never eaten a low fat diet. We THOUGHT we were eating low fat decades ago, BUT WE WERE NOT. And now we THINK we're eating low fat---BUT AGAIN WE'RE NOT. As Americans our diet has been and continues to be incredibly high in fat. So why should we be surprised when we are fat and sick? When will we as Americans eat a diet that IS TRULY LOW FAT?
I honestly don't know why we think that beef is high in fat and cholesterol but chicken and fish are not. Why should chicken be any lower in fat? And why should fish be lower in fat as well? Perhaps because beef is "brown" looking and chicken is "white" looking. But what difference should that make?
Yes, folks will read this, and think it's the truth. But we all know better don't we? We could try and get a letter to the editor printed, but don't count on it. Time magazine will probably print stuff that agrees with this article. But let's not be one bit surprised at what's written. The meat and dairy industries are doing whatever they can to fight back. After all, two big industries are at stake here are they not?

The most interesting part of that video clip was when she said that saturated fats are "neutral" with respect to heart disease.

There are so many unhealthy foods in the American diet. So, swapping one unhealthy food for another unhealthy food is roughly neutral in terms of health. But it's a mistake to conclude that these "neutral" foods are healthy and should be eaten.

Switching from butter to margarine, beef to chicken and then grumbling about how ones health has only gotten worse since adopting a "healthy, low-fat diet" is just the result of severe ignorance about nutrition. At some point, the brain dead-ness must stop!

Animals get their B12 from gut bacteria not from dirt. Some are foregut and others hindgut as are humans. Those that are hindgut like rabbits eat their own poop to get their B12.

I just did a Google search for Ronald Krauss. Then another search for Ronald M. Krauss MD.

Both times, Dr McDougall's article came up SECOND on the list of search results.

This is amazing and I think it shows that Dr McDougall is right. The message is getting out there and more and more people are becoming suspicious of the lies being told to us by the meat and dairy industries, and by their spokespeople like Ronald Krauss.

Google biases the search to links that you'd be likely to follow (viewpoints you like, often.)

Using DuckDuckGo, the first search doesn't turn up McDougall's article on the first page. The second search pattern matches directly with the title and the article shows up as the fourth hit.

Using my version of Google, I get the article on the third hit on both searches.

I don't know what a high rank for the article really means about public opinion. Most people don't search at all, and efforts to throw Campbell under the bus show up with high page rank when I search for "the China Study." Searches can select for extreme viewpoints, since those are often the ones motivated to make a significant commentary, so the motivation to do research that confirms and spreads your views is a probable contributer to page rank along with the prevalence of the belief.

If someone was a heavy low-carber and left their account, then changed their mind about diet, and is now on the forum, it would be interesting to dig out that account and see how it runs a Google search.

Sage Green wrote:

John McDougall wrote:Time Magazine says “Eat Butter”
Big Food’s Last Ditch Efforts

Their judgment day is right around the corner.

John McDougall, MD

I understand you being upset by such articles like the one in TIME magazine, but your statement sounds almost Biblical. I noticed you made a similar statement in a seminar when talking about Paleo and Low Carb diets. Isn't that a little overly dramatic? Don't you think you should reserve that type of statement for the Old Testament prophets or John the Baptist?

You don't think judgment day is coming for unsustainable human activities affecting climate, fossil fuels, resources and impact of livestock farming? "Around the corner" may be optimistic ...

I like to think about a discussion with my cardiologiost when I first told him I wanted to eat "Ornish". He said, "You will live longer." Everyone knows you cant eat butter and bacon, even the people that eat it. Medicines and articles like this give people air cover for awhile. I think that's why these articles come out, and usually all at once as if someone timed them. Hmmmm.

It is probably just the fda and the food corporations working together to sell more junk food.

http://plantpositive.com/blog/2014/6/28 ... atura.html

PLANT POSITIVE
How Time Magazine Sacrificed Its Standards to Promote Saturated Fat

By Plant Positive

June 28, 2014

Has this been posted already? I did a search but didn't recognize it.

soul food

I don't understand all the hoopla over this issue. America didn't take note of the low fat message that's been pushed by the government and experts since the 70's. I don't expect them to take much notice about the current high fat fad either. America will continue to eat how they have always eaten....badly no matter who puts out the message and no matter what that message is. America is the country of SAD and we are converting the world to that message...sadly.

Jumpstart wrote:I don't understand all the hoopla over this issue.

I'd like to see a statistic on butter consumption, i think america would be in the top 10.
So i would ask what war ?

Pandit wrote:

Jumpstart wrote:I don't understand all the hoopla over this issue.

I'd like to see a statistic on butter consumption, i think america would be in the top 10.
So i would ask what war ?

Per-capita butter consumption rose to 5.6 pounds in 2012, up from a low of 4.1 pounds in 1997, according to the American Butter Institute.

In the decade starting in 2002, butter consumption grew 25%.

Global Butter Consumption
REGIONS 2012
Kg per capita / kg par habitant
North and Central America
Canada 2.8
Mexico 0.3
United States 2.5

South America
Argentina 1.4
Brazil 0.4
Chile 1.2
Colombia 0.1
Uruguay 1.6

European Union
European Union (27) 3.7
Austria 5.0
Belgium 2.5
Cyprus 1.9
Czech Republic 5.2
Denmark 1.8
Estonia 4.1
Finland 4.5
France 7.4
Germany 6.2
Greece ..
Hungary 1.0
Ireland 2.4
Italy 2.3
Latvia 2.8
Lithuania 2.8
Luxembourg 6.1
Netherlands 3.3
Poland 4.1
Portugal 1.8
Slovakia 2.9
Spain 0.6
Sweden 1.8
United Kingdom 3.4

Other European Countries
Croatia 1.0
Iceland 4.9
Norway 3.2
Russia 2.8
Switzerland 5.2
Ukraine 2.1

Middle East
Iran 0.3
Israel 0.9
Turkey 0.7

Africa
Egypt 0.7
South Africa 0.3

Asia
China 0.1
India 3.6
Japan 0.6
Kazakhstan 1.1
Mongolia 0.6
Pakistan 3.8
South Korea 0.2

Oceania
Australia 4.0
New Zealand 4.7