Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

I posted a message earlier on this thread to say that I'm honoured to be on the same forum as Dr Campbell and that this is the most interesting thread I've ever read.

Both those statements are still 100% true, but for various reasons I would now very much like to see this thread removed from the boards. I have posted a PM to Jim expressing this hope and I urge as many people as possible to do the same.

ParsleyPatch this is exactly why this thread is still here. There is so much information to be gleaned in all the areas you mentioned. People have no idea how data can be manipulated and used as a marketing tool. It's really the new battleground in nutrition and the pharmaceutical companies and industry have not only known about it but have been using it for quite some time. They know we have been programed to accept research and studies as definitive facts and Dr. McDougall has been warning us about this for a long time.

kalegirl I am quite sure you felt like you were successful in posting a message earlier. I have had the same experience. My point was not to determine if you were being untruthful, it was to point out that if someone was determined to silence you they have either quit trying or there is another answer for your unseen post. Regular posters can attest to odd quirks that can happen while attempting to post. I assure you if one of the moderators or Dr. McDougall wanted you silenced you would be gone and no post would be here. That process is so rare it really isn't an issue. I do hope that since you are here and you are new you will take the time to introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your dietary history and goals and how being on the McDougall forum may be of help to you. Making your first post an attack on the subject of discussion isn't always the easiest way to introduce yourself. Welcome aboard.
f1jim

Lois wrote:I saw kalegirls' first post.
Lois

Me too.

And I agree with parsley patch. This has been, along with so many other thought provoking threads on nuts and nutrtion,been extremely informative. I know I have learned a great deal but of course still have questions. But those may never be fully answered.

Debbie

I agree that there's a lot of interesting info on this thread. I actually think it's the hottest and most interesting thread in the history of internet message boards. But there's some aspects of the thread that make me think it would be in everyone's best interests for it to be removed.

Theodore wrote:Debbie

I agree that there's a lot of interesting info on this thread. I actually think it's the hottest and most interesting thread in the history of internet message boards. But there's some aspects of the thread that make me think it would be in everyone's best interests for it to be removed.

I am curious why would you like the thread removed? And if you don't want to answer that it is ok. Einstein said that some problems can't be solved at the level of thinking we had when we created them. I feel this thread is a wonderful gift of taking us (everyone) to the next place.

I had a Spiritual teacher say, "If you can say you are nuttier than a fruit cake, you can't relax and be here." And another shared, "You are the Spirit, you don't have to drink it.", which could mean I am the nut I don't have to eat them. This is just coming from a addict's perspective. I feel as Krishnamurti shares everything is a echo of self. It is always a inside job.

Aloha, patty

Theodore, I just need to say one thing to you.

I love your signature line!!!!

I also saw kalegirls first post yesterday. It was up for more than a few hours. I have no comments though on why it would have been removed.

And I will add that I do NOT think this thread should be removed.

I find it disturbing that anyone would want to remove the whole thread. Why?

Here we have a forum where one of the finest researchers in the plant-based community, Dr. Campbell himself, has posted, revealing very pertinent and thought-provoking information, then Dr. Fuhrman responded, and some want to erase all that? For what purpose?

You may agree or disagree, but I don't think it's appropriate to censor their comments, or anyone else's. The only purpose that would serve, as far as I can tell, would be to cover for Dr Fuhrman.

Removing the thread won't remove the allegations, and it's important that others who weren't here for this conversation are able to read the views from both sides and form their own opinions about who is being truthful.

patty wrote:I am curious why would you like the thread removed? And if you don't want to answer that it is ok. Einstein said that some problems can't be solved at the level of thinking we had when we created them. I feel this thread is a wonderful gift of taking us (everyone) to the next place.Aloha, patty

Mahalo Patty

There's a couple of reasons that I can't put into words, but maybe one or two that I can.

I've participated in McDougall vs Fuhrman threads in the past, mainly to have a dig at the fact that some animal products have been awarded a higher ANDI score than some whole plant foods and express my concerns over the satiety of the ETL diet, and I believe I may have made a joke about how the ANDI scores didn't include aphrodisiac properties.

But the truth is, I've always seen Dr Fuhrman as being on the same side and saw the McD vs Dr F threads as nothing more than brotherly squabbles. One thing that's making me anxious is that things now seem (to me) to be going beyond brotherly squabbles. Although I suspect that a lot of that has to do with Dr Fuhrman's very vocal criticisms of other plant-based doctors.

Deep down, part of me is hoping that Dr Campbell and Dr Fuhrman can resolve their differences and that this feud can go back down to the playful push and shove level of old times. It's also my hope that Dr Fuhrman will facilitate healing by cutting down on his toxic criticisms of his colleagues.

As I mentioned there are a couple of other concerns that I can't put into words.

Best wishes

Theodore

While all the extra-curricular discussions might also be fascinating we have moved well beyond the original topic here in the "Still nuts" thread and I would request that we bring the topic back around and discuss the other things in a new thread if someone wants to pursue them. So please let's let the topic once again find itself.
Back to nuts.....
f1jim

shell1226 wrote:Theodore, I just need to say one thing to you.

I love your signature line!!!!

Thankyou Shell.

It's actually the main difference between my diet and the Esselstyn diet.

Dr E doesn't eat anything that has a face, whereas I don't eat anything that has an ass.

It's a perfect example of how great minds can look at the same research and come to two completely different conclusions.

I am deleting posts that are no longer on topic. You will know when I am removing posts.
f1jim

Adrienne wrote:Thank you RichardK for posting about Dr F joining forces with Davis, Cordain and other low-carb "health experts." I went on the Track Your Plaque site and it's very surprising (to me anyway) that he would want to be a part of that and associate himself with those people.

Now this is really NUTS! how adding a small amount of nuts to ones diet makes it low-carb is is beyond nutty. Dr. Fuhrman promotes a balanced diet (carb moderate) and saying that he promotes a paleo diet is really spreading falsehood.

Nutrition411 wrote:

Adrienne wrote:Thank you RichardK for posting about Dr F joining forces with Davis, Cordain and other low-carb "health experts." I went on the Track Your Plaque site and it's very surprising (to me anyway) that he would want to be a part of that and associate himself with those people.

Now this is really NUTS! how adding a small amount of nuts to ones diet makes it low-carb is is beyond nutty. Dr. Fuhrman promotes a balanced diet (carb moderate) and saying that he promotes a paleo diet is really spreading falsehood.

Here is what I found. Although I cant say this is what Adrienne was referring to.

Seems to be quite a few low carb/paleo experts on "staff".
http://www.trackyourplaque.com/experts.aspx

Thank you Debbie that is what I was referring to.

Nutrition 411:

Dr F does not promote a moderate carb diet as you suggested. At the last ASW in February he clearly said that he promoted a high-carbohydrate diet, along with Dr McDougall.

That is EXACTLY why I was surprised to see him join forces with Davis, Cordain and the other low-carb "health experts" listed in the link that Debbie posted.

And for the record I never used the term Paleo.