Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

I havent heard of Dr. Fuhrman. However I have read Dr. Campbell's 'The China Study', Dr. Esselstyn's new book 'Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease' and I am almost finished with Dr. McDougall's book 'The McDougall Plan'. I must say that all 3 of them have a very consistent message: No meat, no dairy, no oils. Once you get past that golden rule there are some finer points. Dr. Campbell reiterates a whole foods, plant based diet which includes whole grains. This is what I have been following for a month and a half and I must say, without grains, I would not feel full after some of my meals. At lunch, I can eat about 2 cups of spinach, 1.5 cups of kidney beans, 1 cup cherry tomatoes and I am getting close to being full. I think the whole grains do a better job of making me feel full and the fiber they offer is great at absorbing unused water and fat in the small intestine. And if you have any doubts, you can always look to the East and see what they're eating

I've belonged to the ETL board for the last couple of years. I, too, have found it very difficult to follow. I live in Maine. The winters are cold and I have really been missing potatoes, rice etc. I also miss salt. I have quite a bit of weight to lose and have found myself in a tailspin a lot of the time. Feelings of deprivation, then binging off plan. I feel pretty confident that I can stay on McDougall consistently. I'm looking forward to the starches.

I still stay away from the salt as it isn't anything I need in my body. Most vegetable foods have salt in them anyway and I have got used to skipping the salt shaker.

I have just finished my 12 day McDougall challenge and lost zero pounds. But I found that I was mostly following ETL. I had included 1/3 of an ounce of cashew nuts, 2 ounces of avocado and 4-5 fruits each day. So tomorrow I am going to do another 12 day challenge and this time I am going to stick with the McDougall plan as outlined in the 12 Day book.

I am never hungry eating this way either and I too love starchy vegetables and the occasional rice dish.

Wow, Susie, I had to smile when I read your post. Over Xmas I did a 12-day McDougall stint, lost 7 lbs, had my bp come down to 124/80, and was completely satisfied with my food. Then I tried to do a 12-day ETL stint for comparison. I did a week, felt really good, struggled a bit with hunger -- but then I weighed myself and took my bp, and I was *up* 2 lbs, and my bp was waaay high. I tried to get myself to finish the 12 days, to be fair, but one thing I find with ETL is that once I step away from it it is *so* hard to get back on -- I've been off *any* plan for the last three weeks -- but I'm going back to McD tomorrow, at least until the weather warms up.

So we are sort of doing the same experiment. I do hope you'll post the results of your 12 days of McDougall.

Pam

Oh, and Jenny -- yes, yes, yes -- exactly my experience of doing ETL. I am so drawn in by the great results others get that I keep trying -- but when I step back and look at it, the result for *me* is that I've spent most of the last 4 years fat and unhealthy, due to the binging it sparks in me -- when I spent the *previous* 4 years either getting or being slender and healthy.

When will I learn????
Pam

Pam I think ETL and the McDougall program are ideal for people that are morbidly obese. But hey I am only a couple of pounds over MY ideal weight which is a rather low 118 pound. Today I weight 125 pounds, but I have a bit of belly fat, probably from those nuts and avocado. Also down here it is summer and it is very hot and I don't get out and move the way I do in the cold weather.

Starting today I will post my weight and compliance record for the McDougall 12 programme here;

Today I weighed 57 kilograms ( 125.66 pounds)

BMI 21.2

Susie

Heck I forgot to say that when I started ETL 6 months ago I lost 4 pounds but I started gaining them back again, due to eating slightly off plan. Even though I got back inline with the eating regime, I have built up some belly fat that is hard to lose (I tracked my eating on Fitday PC and found I was averaging just 1246 calories per day and fat intake was 17%)

Right now my weight is the same as when I started all those months ago and I feel I am more constipated too. I have ordered the Esselstyn book now that it is in paperback form. Somewhere it is in transit and due to arrive on the 21st of Feb.

Hi Susie,
I highly recommend 'The China Study' by Campbell. I learned a great deal of background on how certain foods affect your body. It has dedicated sections in the book on many types of cancer, heart disease, auto-immune disorders including diabetes. Esselstyn's book is also a good read and is heart disease specific.

I just finished reading the Esselstyn book - it is excellent, and the recipes look really good. I got the book from the library, so I think I will order my own copy for the recipes. However, Dr. Mcdougalls' looks like feasting compared to his! NO TOFU!

McDougall has found that Tofu(highly concentrated soybean curd) is very high in fat content. However, it also has been found to increase the body's manufacturing of IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) which has been found to increase the likelihood of cancer. See the following McDougall Newsletter:

January 2006 -- “Aging in Style” -- Among other things, says that insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), which is a growth hormone, speeds up the aging process and speeds up the rate of cancer growth. It says that the foods that increase the body’s production of IGF-1 are “Protein in General, Soy Protein, Milk, Meat, Poultry, Fish, Shellfish (and that) eating plant foods, smaller amounts of food, and exercising all lower the activity of this powerful growth hormone.”

Wasula I have the China Study and I agree with everything you said about it. I found it a great movitator to stay right away from dairy products.

I had been wanting to purchase Esselstyn's book for a while now. Unfortunately it is not available locally and it meant buying it from Amazon in the US. Things take forever to reach here and the estimated arrival date is 21 Feb, so I am really hanging out for it. I could buy it from NZ, but it was double the cost and it still takes 10 days to get here.

Pam after day 3 of the 12 day challenge I have lost one pound. Yesterday I ate more fruit than allowed, but otherwise did ok.

Yesterday ended with a very stressful event when my sister's 20 year old cat had a heart attack and although we raced her to an after hours vet 9 miles away, sadly she died. Still after living 20 years as a much loved companion, she went quickly,just one hour after having the heart attack. For a little stray cat, she landed in a very loving home. We still have her 19 year old daughter too.

wasula wrote:McDougall has found that Tofu(highly concentrated soybean curd) is very high in fat content. However, it also has been found to increase the body's manufacturing of IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) which has been found to increase the likelihood of cancer. See the following McDougall Newsletter:

January 2006 -- “Aging in Style” -- Among other things, says that insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1), which is a growth hormone, speeds up the aging process and speeds up the rate of cancer growth. It says that the foods that increase the body’s production of IGF-1 are “Protein in General, Soy Protein, Milk, Meat, Poultry, Fish, Shellfish (and that) eating plant foods, smaller amounts of food, and exercising all lower the activity of this powerful growth hormone.”

To put this in context, Dr. McDougall is referring to isolated soy proteins. This quote is from the same newsletter article:
"A good example of this effect is seen with the isolated soy proteins used in synthetic foods, from candy bars to burgers. This concentrated protein is an even more powerful promoter of IGF-1 than is cow’s milk.23"

Many of Mary's recipes use tofu in moderate amounts. I have never seen Dr. McDougall say No Tofu (except for the MWL in which weight loss is the goal.) He simply advocates modest consumption.

Oh, Susie, I'm so sorry about the cat. I lost my 17-year-old last year, but at least I had a month's warning that she was ill. And I'm still grieving. Ours was a stray too, and it *is* a comfort to know that you gave her a good home, and that she didn't suffer. Oh, but it still hurts.

Thank you for the update on your 12-day program, too . . .

Pam