Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

Hi Jeff,

I post this as a result of listening to a Rich Roll podcast with Valter Longo, PHd. He is one of the authors of this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606898

This study is famous for highlighting the dangers of high animal protein intake with regards to mortality and cancer risk. But, it also asserted that those >65 years should increase their protein intake. This appears to be based on the results of mouse studies. Also, in Dr. Longo's comments to Rich Roll, he stated that it was protective for elderly to have BMIs in the 25 range and that frailty was a longevity risk.

Call me a doubter as I have yet to hear any of the plant-based proponents, including McDougall, Esselstyn, Furhman, T.Colin Campbell, assert that this is necessary. Also, I recall other studies that indicated that excess protein was of no benefit in building muscle. Excess protein is more likely to increase body fat than muscle. Is it really protective to have more body fat?

Dr. Greger has produced an article which challenges this proposition of higher protein for those over 65:
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/increasing-protein-intake-age-65/

Anyway, your take on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,

Ernie

Ern2Win wrote:Hi Jeff,

I post this as a result of listening to a Rich Roll podcast with Valter Longo, PHd. He is one of the authors of this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606898

This study is famous for highlighting the dangers of high animal protein intake with regards to mortality and cancer risk. But, it also asserted that those >65 years should increase their protein intake. This appears to be based on the results of mouse studies. Also, in Dr. Longo's comments to Rich Roll, he stated that it was protective for elderly to have BMIs in the 25 range and that frailty was a longevity risk.

Call me a doubter as I have yet to hear any of the plant-based proponents, including McDougall, Esselstyn, Furhman, T.Colin Campbell, assert that this is necessary. Also, I recall other studies that indicated that excess protein was of no benefit in building muscle. Excess protein is more likely to increase body fat than muscle. Is it really protective to have more body fat?

Dr. Greger has produced an article which challenges this proposition of higher protein for those over 65:
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/increasing-protein-intake-age-65/

Anyway, your take on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

TIA,

Ernie

Well, as usually, these studies lack application and relevance.

I don’t see any credible evidence to support his claims in regard to this (or his FMD). There have been a few critiques of the study.

Does this sound appealing to you... “Conversely, high protein intake was associated with reduced cancer and overall mortality in respondents over 65, but a 5-fold increase in diabetes mortality across all ages”

Clearly, people need adequate protein, and the RDA already includes a built in buffer. Ironically, most people in American already get 1.8 to 2x the RDA. Remember, associations in one study are anything near evidence.

Do we think they now need more then that?

In aging research, it seems like keeping protein (along with certain amino acids) lower (but still adequate) has show some value.

In Health
Jeff

Thanks Jeff for the quick response,

You have a great way of cutting through the confusion and placing these issues in the appropriate perspective.

Regards,

Ernie

Thanks

I get that IF and all its variations (FMD, ADF, TRE, etc) are getting lots or attention, but attention doesn't equal evidence. Neither does being hyped by "doctors."

If you would like a review, I keep my thread on IF updated including 2 recent RCT's on it.

Remember, most of the benefits being claimed for IF (and all its variations) aren't anything you don't already achieve by following a healthy diet and lifestyle as recommended here. Most of the studies are public and you can go and review the actual numbers yourself.

To prove its real value, the comparison must be done on those following very healthy diets (ie, 100 people following a diet as I recommend with 50 adding in FMD and 50 without FMD).

In Health
Jeff

PS For the record, I work behind the scenes with TN and we are working on some studies with Longo. I was on the TN IRB but stepped down because from my perspective, I think it creates a conflict of interest. I am still not impressed with IF but maybe, one day, that will change. However, having been involved with the NH movement for many decades, who were proponent of regular fasting (ie, 1 day a week, 3 day a month, 7 days once a season, extended fast once a year), I doubt it will prove superior to what we are already doing. I think my colleague Jay Kenney's comments in my last IF post in my IF thread are very applicable.