Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

- She said, "I would put bad stuff (I think she means butter and meat) in your food if I could".

One could argue that trying to sabotage your health is, in fact, a form of abuse.

What if you were an alcoholic or other type of drug abuser, in the process of recovery, and she said that same statement, subsituting drugs or alcohol? This is a person who does not want you to get well. I seriously question that.

I second that thought from Nomikins, it does not make any good sense or sound like love to me, to deliberately try to ruin your success and in the process your health too. What kind of a person does that?

Hi Dissolution, I'm pretty new here and just caught up on your journal. Wow, what a journey! It's very sad that your wife does not support you (or, obviously, your health), but I'm glad you're able to come on here to journal, vent, and have the support of this community of people. I just wanted to add my voice to the crowd.

Take care,
V

A couple more points:

Just because you don't really consider yourself abused, that does not mean that abuse is not taking place. And the fact that your stepsons would choose you over their own mother speaks volumes. Just my two cents...

Good Evening Dis, I thought of something that used to help me when dealing with very aggressive controlling co-workers where I worked with adjudicated youth with numerous mental issues. The line went something like this: if you remove the reactions the action is removed next. So if you wife is getting your reactions and that alone gets her satisfaction and makes her feel as tho she is still in control, then remove all reactions and do not involve her in any dialog about this WOE or food prep. She will step it up for a time, and then move on to greener pastures for her high ( the reaction/feel of control in the situation ) The key is to not take any comments too personal, and never show any emotion to her remarks. Get up and walk away, and she has to move on too....
You mentioned she was Scotch/Irish, and that is a lethal combo, but you have been tog. for 10 yrs, you are a true blessing to her and the sons too!

Wow, lots of comments...

Ok for the most part I am a very calm individual. When she bitches about smells or makes her nasty comments, she gets very little if any reaction from me. She's used to this. I will attempt to discuss things with her, sometimes. Most of the time though, I wind up just walking away. She calls this me being "emotionally dead".

When our oldest was 15, he was very ummm, let's say "spirited". She eventually had to stop disciplining him, because the two of them would wind up screaming at each other and she would be crying and the boy would be grounded for 6 months. Once I took over and he couldn't get that reaction out of me, his tantrums greatly diminished.

One of the few times I truly got very angry at her was when I was trying to explain food addiction to her. The concept seems to allude her, like she doesn't see how it's even possible to be addicted to food. My point was always that food addiction was the worst, because you HAVE to eat, you don't have to smoke, or drink, do drugs. This has been a few years ago, but I go very very angry, I think I punched a hole in a wall or broke something.

I guess the point I am getting at is, she doesn't believe in food addiction. She truly thinks that the ONLY reason she is obese is because she messed up her metabolism when she was a teenager and trying to diet by not eating food. She has told many people that she doesn't eat enough food in a day to keep a small child alive, and she really believes that. I tried to get her to count calories, or points or just keep a food diary. Her reaction was to accuse me of calling her a fat cow that does nothing but eat. I simply said, "I think you eat more than you think you do.".

With that kind of twisted view of food and food addiction, and her honestly believing that a vegan diet is dangerous. I didn't think that her "put something in your food" comment was as sinister as I'm sure it seems to a lot of you. That or my head is just not in the right place and I'm covering for her and making excuses.

It looked like she might have been researching something on her computer when I got back from my walk this morning. Looked like a picture of a clogged artery. She hasn't said anything yet.

Was running a little late this morning so it was a short walk

Distance: 1.1 miles
Moving Time: 15:17
Average Moving Speed: 4.31 mph
Elevation gain: 326 ft

I think it's possible your wife is getting ready to make a big change. Obviously, I don't know her... but I've seen people (especially all or nothing extreme type people) who kind of gather all their energy, fight for their positions like crazy, then suddenly make a huge flip-flop and then they're on the other side.

I've seen this with religion (being born again, becoming atheist), politics (radical hippie becoming conservative), and with diet (vegan suddenly eating meat).

One can hope, anyway!

Have a good day, and great about the walk. I took our little Yorkie for a walk in the cold and slight wind yesterday. She is a rescue pup, and we adore her.... altho just yesterday she was chewing up the carpet near DH chair and he was having a royal fit. So I had to practice my methods of not much reaction... Dh heritage is Irish/Italian, and they love to make a big splash, but ah, when the wind is out of the sails. dead in the water....
Hey I still marvel at how much progress you have made , it is so terrific. Cool Beans and keep at it!!

Dissolution wrote:Wow, lots of comments...

Ok for the most part I am a very calm individual. When she bitches about smells or makes her nasty comments, she gets very little if any reaction from me. She's used to this. I will attempt to discuss things with her, sometimes. Most of the time though, I wind up just walking away. She calls this me being "emotionally dead".

When our oldest was 15, he was very ummm, let's say "spirited". She eventually had to stop disciplining him, because the two of them would wind up screaming at each other and she would be crying and the boy would be grounded for 6 months. Once I took over and he couldn't get that reaction out of me, his tantrums greatly diminished.

One of the few times I truly got very angry at her was when I was trying to explain food addiction to her. The concept seems to allude her, like she doesn't see how it's even possible to be addicted to food. My point was always that food addiction was the worst, because you HAVE to eat, you don't have to smoke, or drink, do drugs. This has been a few years ago, but I go very very angry, I think I punched a hole in a wall or broke something.

I guess the point I am getting at is, she doesn't believe in food addiction. She truly thinks that the ONLY reason she is obese is because she messed up her metabolism when she was a teenager and trying to diet by not eating food. She has told many people that she doesn't eat enough food in a day to keep a small child alive, and she really believes that. I tried to get her to count calories, or points or just keep a food diary. Her reaction was to accuse me of calling her a fat cow that does nothing but eat. I simply said, "I think you eat more than you think you do.".

With that kind of twisted view of food and food addiction, and her honestly believing that a vegan diet is dangerous. I didn't think that her "put something in your food" comment was as sinister as I'm sure it seems to a lot of you. That or my head is just not in the right place and I'm covering for her and making excuses.

It looked like she might have been researching something on her computer when I got back from my walk this morning. Looked like a picture of a clogged artery. She hasn't said anything yet.

You are a good man and a good husband.

I don't think her comment was sinister, at least not any more sinister than the rest of the world. She seems to have a dark wit. She's in pain, so maybe it's a bit more twisted right now. Like a tornado. Do you have a basement?

When you told her she eats more than she thinks she does, were you referring to food or calories? Don't tell her she eats too much food. Research shows people eat the same amount of food day to day. It might help when talking about lifestyle diet to turn the focus to calorie density. It is possible to eat small amounts volume/weight of food but large amounts of calories. If butter is her best friend, I'd imagine her daily diet is probably calorie dense. Also, if she's not eating healthy, her metabolism and lots of things in her body are probably messed up, so I wouldn't be too quick to tell her she's wrong. Maybe she is in denial about the volume of food she eats. Maybe she's not. But the volume isn't most important. Even high volume eaters can lose weight and get healthier if they choose to eat primarily low calorie density foods. If the words "vegan" and "addiction" are triggers for her, you can always stop using them. "Plant-based" or "starch-based" might be preferable terms. Veganism is really more about compassion for animals and the planet. The benefits to people come after that. A "vegan diet" isn't necessarily a healthy diet, as Dr. McDougall has noted. There are fat vegans, and there are unhealthy vegans. You are not vegan, are you? When you're vegan and you pass on the steak and bacon, you probably won't be thinking about your arteries. A vegan diet is dangerous because it threatens the status quo. But just look at the status quo! When I first gave up meat, I did it for personal health reasons and to support my mom who was trying Dr. Barnard's diet to get off diabetes meds (That worked for her, by the way.), but then I watched Earthlings. That took the choice not to eat animal flesh to another level for me. If you really want to piss off your wife and make her cry, get her to watch that. Some people can watch that documentary without crying, but I'm pretty sure they're alien pod people.

Have a great day!

HI again, have not seen that Documentary myself. I will have to one of these days.
Good advice from Agnes, and all of you!!

Keep up your spirits and good work Dissolution! YOur wife may surprise you - as has been said by others, she sounds very scared that she will lose you - sounds like you are everything to her, and nothing wrong with that. People with abandonment issues tend to hang on tighter when threatened, as I know personally from my own past, til my dh of 22 years helped heal me. I agree that she may very well surprise you! Edited to add - I should clarify that while I have had abandonment issues, my symptoms were never like your wife's, in that I was not jealous or possessive. However the fear of abandonment definitely led me to do some things in my first marriage that I would rather forget.

Wow, Dissolution!! I've read murder mysteries that were less exciting than your journal entries. I just read the whole thing through and it took me quite a while. Can't wait for the next installment.

I am not surprised at your wife's attitude and actually I feel kind of sorry for her. The two of you were alike, both enjoyed food, her special gift to you was her fabulous cooking, something that made her special as a person and your wife. Now everything in her world has changed.

Imagine if you were--let's say--devout southern Baptists (pick any religion) and you were active in your church, had a circle of friends who you socialized with had the same philosophy and outlook on life that for years bonded you together. And let's say out of the blue you decided to join the anglican church or a jewish synagogue (pick any religion). People don't realize how much the love and closeness they feel for each other is intertwined with a lot of the predictable habits and opinions they have shared for years. She could be wondering who this person is who is no longer sitting beside her in the pew on Sunday morning and would naturally want him in the pew with her like he has always been. Yes you were eating yourselves into an early grave but at least you were doing it together. Apparently for whatever reason, she, at this time, is unable to follow where you are going and feels left behind.

It is so sad that her fear that you will leave might become a self fulfilling prophecy. Acting on her fears might be the very thing that drives you apart. I most sincerely hope she can find help.

Didi

Great analogy Didi - never thought of it just like that.

Broadbean I can only hope. She was in a very "loving" mood when I got home from work today, that's been kind of rare lately.

carollynne OMG, Irish/Italian...Are things very loud when you are at your In-Laws? I have a Yorkie-Poo, I'll have to post a picture of her.

AlwaysAgnes When I tell her that I think she eats more food than she things she does, I am talking about calories. Let's see I just Cron-o-metered a what would be a light day for her.

3 mugs of coffee (each with 1/2 cup of half-n-half)
1 baloney sandwich with 2 pieces of baloney, 2 slices of wheat bread and mayo.
1 can of pringles
6 reeses peanut butter cup minis.

So basically that's one meal and snacking on pringles all day.

I totaled 2300 calories 63% Fat, 29% Carbs, 8% Protein

This is pretty much what she ate the first week I went Plant-Strong, it was her way of protesting.

You are correct though. I am not a vegan. Sometimes it's convenient to use the term, because most people seem to know what it means in relation to food.

For right now, I probably will avoid watching Earthlings. If the movie is what I think it is, I probably don't need that baggage hanging around while the wife and I come to terms with our current problems.
I can't get her to watch a 3 minute McDougall video, so movies are out of the question.

didi That was a GREAT analogy. I know she's not as mean and evil and she probably sounds in my journal, she's just scared and confused. She told me she ate oatmeal today, I was surprised and pleased and let her know it, without being patronizing. Of course she had a fried spam sandwich for dinner, but it could still be considered progress.

Writing this journal has been an interesting experience for me. I've never done anything like this before. I'm glad it has been entertaining to read. I'm frequently entertained by my own life...lol The past few months has felt very surreal. If somebody had told me 6 months ago that I would be 60 pounds lighter and not eat animal products or added oil anymore, I would have thought they were crazy. The changes make my head spin sometimes, and I'm getting all the benefits, so I really do understand the wife being as unstable as she is right now. But still, I can't wait to see what's going to happen next.

No walk this morning. Was waiting for it to warm up, but then had to head to work a little earlier than usual.

I made this for dinner tonight, had it over rice, it was awesome.

http://blog.fatfreevegan.com/2009/01/red-cabbage-and-peas-with-cumin-and.html

Oh yeah, I was surprised to see the scale go down again. The morning after my fast I was at 237.6 which I rounded to 238, and then this morning I was at 237.1, very pleased, was just a little surprised.